Jump to content
David

2013 Honda Foreman 500 won’t start

Recommended Posts

Couple days ago son was riding and unit just died. Spit sputtered and died. So I get to checking stuff. Here fuel pump coming on. Decided to remove pump and inspect anyway. It was nasty. Fuel was jet black and sock appeared to be stopped up. So i replaced pump due to that and never been replaced. Thought it was a fuel delivery issue. Got fuel spraying at injector really good. That night checking it out before replacing pump it wanted to back fire a lot with using starting fluid. It will try to start at times and dies immediately. I did replace spark plug for ! of it as well. So today while trying to figure this out I removed spark plug and watched it during while trying to crank. Spark is very inconsistent (hit and miss) while cranking and kind of a bright orange.  I’m thinking it has a weak spark. What could cause this other than ignition coil? I don’t think it’s jumped time being when it does start briefly engine sounds ok and no noises. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Weak spark could be from a lot of things. Besides the coil, there is a stator, ecm and connections.

Check and clean all the electrical wiring connectors first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Hi David, welcome to ATVHonda!

 

There should be battery voltage across the Black/Red stripe wire and the Green/Yellow stripe wire that connect to the ignition coil while the key is turned on (not cranking the motor over). You can check the primary voltage using a multimeter. Turn the key off, unplug the Bl/R wire and the G/Y wire from the Ign coil. Set your multimeter to DC volts and with the red lead from your meter probe the coil connector on the end of that Bl/R wire while you probe the G/Y wire connector with your black meter lead. Turn the key on... you should measure battery voltage (12.6 volts DC or higher) across those two ignition coil wires. Then press the starter button and make note of the voltage drop while cranking... let us know what you measure in both tests.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

To save time also measure the primary voltage while the Ign coil is plugged in.... since that was gonna be my next question. You do have a new NGK spark plug right? Inspect the spark plug cable for rub-throughs and push & twist the plug boot into the cable 1/4 turn to make sure the boot has not pulled off of the cable.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
6 minutes ago, retro said:

To save time also measure the primary voltage while the Ign coil is plugged in.... since that was gonna be my next question. You do have a new NGK spark plug right? Inspect the spark plug cable for rub-throughs and push & twist the plug boot into the cable 1/4 turn to make sure the boot has not pulled off of the cable.

That I did do. Yes NGK plug only. Even tried a bee for the ! of it. Even removed all connectors to clean and reconnect. I’m not real good with in depth electrical diagnosis. Not having any data to read is killing me. A good majority of it I can handle with no problem. I handle more of mechanical type repairs/rebuilds. I don’t get my ! kicked very often but this just has me stumped. Anyway, from Ive checked with my volt meter as best I can it seems maybe the ignition coil might be bad. I’m not 💯 on this but I’ve ordered one to pick up tomorrow and see what happens.  If that don’t do it I’m gonna take it to the dealer for repair most likely. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

For sure, the newer Honda ATVs are more difficult to diagnose ignition faults since the factory stopped publishing coil resistance values way back and only publish peak voltage values nowadays. So if ya don't have a peak voltage adaptor handy ya won't get very far..

 

An OEM Honda ignition coil might fix it. Just don't plug in a china knockoff part as china parts on Hondas do more harm (primary coil resistance is overly low which can overheat and fry the ECU) than good. While you are waiting on the new coil you can unplug the ECU grey harness connector very carefully (the pins are tiny and bend easily), put some dielectric grease inside the connector and carefully plug it back in until it snaps completely together. Honda does not weatherproof/oxygen-proof their connectors at the factory so over time water/moisture may enter connectors and oxygen begins to corrode them which can lead to connector failures.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

I only use OE electrical parts on anything. I ordered one from Honda. I did remove all connectors on ECM. Cleaned, applied dielectric grease to every electrical connector. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

moisture makes a point, you said your son was riding the bike, just before this issue came up, any chance he took it for a creek or overly wet ride, and is there evidence of rodents chewing the wiring up ? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Well..........since you asked......... in April it sunk in a pond. Upside down tires above the water, floating. Absolutely no water got in the engine. I was shocked. However it is snorkeled. Not even a shot glass of water in air filter box. I was prepared for this cause I knew it was gonna be a battle with some electrical stuff for a little while. I did remove all connectors and electrical components right away and dry everything out as best I could. It’s been small things here and there last few months but nothing real major till last month when I had to replace everything from final drive, rear diff, every single little bearing and seal along the way. I mean I replaced everything. Only thing I didn’t replace was stator and CKP sensor while I had rear cover off. I kinda almost regret doing so. I’m wondering if CKP sensor maybe an issue to being spark is just hit/miss and not consistent. FYI...... to my knowledge he hasn’t been in any water since then due to it scared him so bad. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

I only use OE electrical parts on anything. I ordered one from Honda. I did remove all connectors on ECM. Cleaned, applied dielectric grease to every electrical connector. So I have 12 volts at coil is what makes me think coil is bad with having a weak spark. 12 volts is consistent when cranking engine. It tries to fire just won’t fire off. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
19 hours ago, retro said:

Hi David, welcome to ATVHonda!

 

There should be battery voltage across the Black/Red stripe wire and the Green/Yellow stripe wire that connect to the ignition coil while the key is turned on (not cranking the motor over). You can check the primary voltage using a multimeter. Turn the key off, unplug the Bl/R wire and the G/Y wire from the Ign coil. Set your multimeter to DC volts and with the red lead from your meter probe the coil connector on the end of that Bl/R wire while you probe the G/Y wire connector with your black meter lead. Turn the key on... you should measure battery voltage (12.6 volts DC or higher) across those two ignition coil wires. Then press the starter button and make note of the voltage drop while cranking... let us know what you measure in both tests.

It has 12 + volts at black/red wire. Is green wire suppose to have 12 volts or is that the ground? Upon cranking drops to no less 10.5 volts. I’m assuming coil is bad based on these findings. What’s your thoughts? 

Edited by David

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Yup, the G/Y wire is negative ground, Bl/R is positive. It sounds like the battery may be weak. Resting voltage should be 12.6 minimum, but 10.4 volts at the coil while cranking should be enough to make spark. At this point unless you have a peak voltage adaptor ya can't trust your work. So it becomes a guessing game... which usually results in costing a bunch of money buying parts that aren't needed.

 

If you have a good multimeter (10 megohm per DC volt or better impedance) with a Peak/Max button on it you may be able to capture the peak voltage pulses at the coil and the CKP sensor. Adding a 1 micro-farad 200-250 volts electrolytic capacitor between your red meter lead and the test connector would insure that ya capture them. Someday I am going to build a few PVAs to lend out to members.... its frustrating working without one.

 

Here is the ignition diagram, the coil PV test and the CKP PV test from the ignition section in the 2004-2016 Honda Foreman service manual.

 

ign.png

 

ign-coil.png

 

ckp.png

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Coil is good I do know that. I’m leaning towards crank sensor. I don’t really have what I need to check it I don’t think. I’ve checked and rechecked all connections. The symptoms to me just make sense. I could be wrong though. I removed all covering from harness at plug to where wires go into rear engine cover to the stator and the CKP sensor. No issues found. I did notice it does try to start more when I grab harness at end closes to the harness at the housing and wiggle/move it round. Also tapping on housing where sensor is located it tends to try to fire off more as well. I’m not sure if it’s just coincidence when it does that or really have an issue there. I’m thinking there is. Now I just had this rear cover off due to having to replace final drive shaft getting bent from u-joint coming apart little over a month ago. I started to replace them when I had it off. I’m starting to wish I had.  ! I just wish I had some data to look at to know for sure. I don’t want to start throwing parts at something. I despise doing that and don’t practice that in my own shop. I’m undecided at this point as to whether to take to a repair shop or replace crank sensor and see what happens. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

I expect that you're right about the CKP sensor being bad. Ya got one other option though, get a PVA and test before ya spend the big bucks on a stator/CKP assembly. Its one of those tools ya generally only need once though, unless you work on CDI ignitions often.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Electronic-Specialties-640-DVA-Adapter/dp/B0093U3TFG

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...