04 Foreman 450ES - Clean up, Repair, Maintenance & Enjoy

[freebo86 291]

Tackled the front racks.

 

Anyone comment on whether pivotworks bearings worth the money and labour? Looks like one of my front wheel has some play. Hopefully it’s not a worn knuckle. 

 

 

[retro 4,048]

If I remember right Pivotworks were bought out by the company that sells All Balls bearings and are junk bearings now. I think @Fishfiles knows the story...

[Fishfiles 20,145]

Retro is right Pivot Works sold out and are All Balls with a Pivot Work package , junk China stuff 

[freebo86 291]

46 minutes ago, retro said:

If I remember right Pivotworks were bought out by the company that sells All Balls bearings and are junk bearings now. I think @Fishfiles knows the story...

 

44 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

Retro is right Pivot Works sold out and are All Balls with a Pivot Work package , junk China stuff 

So what brand bearings does one purchase now? 
 

Can these front wheel bearings be purchased from my local bearing place or this more than likely be junk again unless they sell a specific brand? 

[retro 4,048]

I generally shop for major brand high quality replacements on the Internet. None of the good bearing companies sell cheap, but most sizes can be found a bit cheaper than OEM prices by shopping around.

 

Edit: Pack new bearings with grease before installing them, even sealed bearings, cause they are generally shipped empty nowadays.

[Fishfiles 20,145]

the OEM part number is 91051-HA7-651 , angular ball bearing , 30x54x24 ,Partzilla sells them for $47 , the  same bearing is used in all 400, 450  500 and 680s 

 

 This bearing is also known as:
Honda: 91051-HA7-651
Can-Am: 705400006
Industry Number: DE0681CS18-2RS
Industry Number: DAC30540024

KML sealed bearing part# DE0681CS18-2RS

 

The two seal description   clark seal part# TC 38 55 6 1,  clark seal part# TCZ 40 58 7P

 

If you do get a bearing that is already greased , it is a good idea to wash the Yuk Fat grease out and re-grease with some quality grease 

[freebo86 291]

So what are good quality bearings or brands at least? 
 

@Fishfiles thanks for those cross reference numbers. 

Edited May 10, 2021 by freebo86

[Fishfiles 20,145]

That's a good question , I would use OEM myself , never have been able to get a cross reference from Timken ---

 

I just got off the phone with the two biggest bearing suppliers in the city , ABS said bring it in and maybe , I doubt it ---- then my buddy Bobby works for Motion Industries and he has a Polaris side by side , so he tried hard to help me , he says he can't get the bearing , it has a listing from NHCI but is unavailable , says BCA use to have that size   -    I also asked him about going with two single  bearings instead of a double roller ,  he can get 30x55x13 singles , so a double stack would be 1mm too big of an O/D and 2mm to thick using  two bearings   , crazy they did that    

[jeepwm69 7,600]

Just get OEM.

 

The only bearings I've used that lasted other than OEM were the old Pivotworks.  All Balls bought out Pivotworks a few years ago so now Pivotworks are just repacked All Balls bearings (china).

 

So no decent bearings available that I've found other than OEM.

[freebo86 291]

36 minutes ago, jeepwm69 said:

Just get OEM.

 

The only bearings I've used that lasted other than OEM were the old Pivotworks.  All Balls bought out Pivotworks a few years ago so now Pivotworks are just repacked All Balls bearings (china).

 

So no decent bearings available that I've found other than OEM.

 

I think I may have got my hands on an old set of Pivotworks which actually may be the good quality ones then?

[Fishfiles 20,145]

32 minutes ago, freebo86 said:

 

I think I may have got my hands on an old set of Pivotworks which actually may be the good quality ones then?

Seems all the new Pivot Woks packages are blister packs , cardboard backing with heat shrink plastic over it is the norm now  , the original package from Pivot works was a clear plastic box , but when they first changed over they did still use the box for a while 

 

I did find out that the TRX350D used the bearing which could be stacked double and be a perfect fit , 30x54x12 , so two together would measure 30x54x24 , that number doesn't cross over either , there are a few NOS on e-bay and range from $9.99 to $39.99 , but you need 2 to do one knuckle 

[jeepwm69 7,600]

1 hour ago, freebo86 said:

 

I think I may have got my hands on an old set of Pivotworks which actually may be the good quality ones then?

 

If they have open sided bearings, they're the good ones.  If the sides of the bearings have seals, they're All Balls.

 

That's as near as I can tell anyway. 

[freebo86 291]

16 minutes ago, jeepwm69 said:

 

If they have open sided bearings, they're the good ones.  If the sides of the bearings have seals, they're All Balls.

 

That's as near as I can tell anyway. 

What do you mean open sides? As in the ball bearings are visible? 
 

Here is the actual sale AD. 
Pivot Works PWFWK-H14-040 Front Wheel Bearing Kit https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B007S0KG3Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_PQAZK2ZM2BEDXDKV4MGA

Edited May 10, 2021 by freebo86

[jeepwm69 7,600]

47 minutes ago, freebo86 said:

What do you mean open sides? As in the ball bearings are visible? 
 

Here is the actual sale AD. 
Pivot Works PWFWK-H14-040 Front Wheel Bearing Kit https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B007S0KG3Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_PQAZK2ZM2BEDXDKV4MGA

 

Anything you get from Amazon is going to be All Balls.  They bought out Pivotworks in 2017.  The pic will NOT accurately describe what you get.

 

Yes, on the original Honda bearings, and the early (good) pivotworks bearings, there were no seals on the sides of the bearings.  They are open where you could see the grease and ball bearings, like in the picture on that ad.  You will not get those.  You will get new chinese garbage bearings.

 

China bearings have seals in the sides.

 

About a year and a half ago, I ordered a BUNCH of Pivotworks bearings on Black Friday, from several different sellers, all on Amazon.  ALL were the sealed china bearings.  Noticing the difference, I found a number on the seal, googled it, and it was an All Balls part number. 

 

I called Pivotworks and the phone number was All Balls racing.  I talked to a tech there who confirmed that Pivotworks bearings are now repackaged All Balls bearings.  The only difference is the Pivotworks have a "lifetime guarantee", which in reality is a one time free replacement.

 

Having experience with All Balls bearings, I'll stick with OEM from now on.  It's not worth the time and effort to install All Balls no longer than they last, even if I get a second set free.  My time's worth more than that.

 

So if you order those on amazon, you'll get crap bearings.  When they fail in a matter of weeks, maybe a couple of months, you can mail them back (at your expense) and they'll send you another set of garbage bearings.  That's it.  One time replacement only.  That's the "lifetime warranty"

[jeepwm69 7,600]

2 hours ago, freebo86 said:

 

I think I may have got my hands on an old set of Pivotworks which actually may be the good quality ones then?

 

If you don't have them in your hand to verify that they are the old Pivotworks bearings, avoid them. 

 

The old ones had the Pivotworks part number embossed/engraved on the inner steel bearing race.  No side seals in the bearings.

 

Anything you order unseen you will 99.99999% get garbage All Balls bearings.

 

 

[freebo86 291]

4 hours ago, jeepwm69 said:

 

If you don't have them in your hand to verify that they are the old Pivotworks bearings, avoid them. 

 

The old ones had the Pivotworks part number embossed/engraved on the inner steel bearing race.  No side seals in the bearings.

 

Anything you order unseen you will 99.99999% get garbage All Balls bearings.

 

 

wealth of knowledge you provided! I ordered them last night, if they are as you describe their going back - gotta love Amazon Prime for that. I’ll post up should be here in the next couple of days.  

[Fishfiles 20,145]

[freebo86 291]

13 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

So that’s the unsealed type? As in the “bees knees”? 
 

@Fishfiles is there something you don’t have? Lol! 

[Fishfiles 20,145]

1 minute ago, freebo86 said:

So that’s the unsealed type? As in the “bees knees”? 
 

@Fishfiles is there something you don’t have? Lol! 

No , the ones I was getting had side seals on them and were pre-packed with Yack Fat as Retro calls it , I  always pop the inside side seal off the bearing and throw it away , wash them out and repack them with marine grease , then pack the knuckle with as much grease as I can --- the last replacement set I got from Pivot Works had a tube of grease in the blister pack and the bearings were not greased from the factory , those didn't have side seals , they didn't have Pivot Works embossed into the race , I never used that tube of grease , still got it in the shed , I am curious right now what kind of grease is in that tube 

[freebo86 291]

On 5/10/2021 at 9:54 PM, Fishfiles said:

No , the ones I was getting had side seals on them and were pre-packed with Yack Fat as Retro calls it , I  always pop the inside side seal off the bearing and throw it away , wash them out and repack them with marine grease , then pack the knuckle with as much grease as I can --- the last replacement set I got from Pivot Works had a tube of grease in the blister pack and the bearings were not greased from the factory , those didn't have side seals , they didn't have Pivot Works embossed into the race , I never used that tube of grease , still got it in the shed , I am curious right now what kind of grease is in that tube 

While on the topic of front bearings, and potential knuckle worn what knuckles interchange with the 450? @jeepwm69 I think may know?

[jeepwm69 7,600]

If you have to replace knuckles, I'd upgrade.

 

05-11 Foreman, 05-14 Rubicon, and 06-21 Rincon knuckles will bolt right on at the ball joints, and when you add hub/rotors, and calipers, you have factory disc brakes.

[freebo86 291]

On 5/14/2021 at 11:32 AM, jeepwm69 said:

If you have to replace knuckles, I'd upgrade.

 

05-11 Foreman, 05-14 Rubicon, and 06-21 Rincon knuckles will bolt right on at the ball joints, and when you add hub/rotors, and calipers, you have factory disc brakes.

I already have front discs on the 450. 
 

The pivotworks bearings arrived. The description matched what @jeepwm69 said. Are these the good or bad ones? Something particular I should be looking for?

 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by freebo86

[Fishfiles 20,145]

hard to see anything for sure from those pics , the bearings are in the bag and the sticker is right over the bearing numbers in the other where you can see the race , they key is to have the word Pivot Works embossed into the inner race , that was when they were good , the box is right --- 

[freebo86 291]

3 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

hard to see anything for sure from those pics , the bearings are in the bag and the sticker is right over the bearing numbers in the other where you can see the race , they key is to have the word Pivot Works embossed into the inner race , that was when they were good , the box is right --- 

No go boss. 

[Fishfiles 20,145]

 zmbe-039-c3 doesn't come up on  searches  ------