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Jemmons467

2000 Foreman 450 es no shift

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Jeremy , after conversing with you last night in chat you seem like a nice guy , thank you for your service again , you remind me of me , LOL

 

 I feel like trying to help you out some more , what's about you pay shipping via pay-pal before I send it , if it fixes your problem , then send me $40 for a couple of cases of Coors Lite Long Necks as I know your a beer guy also , LOL ,   if it doesn't fix your problem ship it back to me , for two reasons , it might not work for you as it wasn't your problem but might work for someone else ,  and it would prevent you from saying it didn't work and just keep it , not that  I think you would do that , just protecting myself as I don't really know you ----- 

 

  Retro has kind of scared me that it could be burnt up as soon as it is plugged in , shoot , I don't even know if it works and have no way to put it on a atv and test it -----

 

I do have a coupe of 450s , neither are ES , but I have seen the wiring harness rub on the bottom side of the frame under the seat area where the harness goes from the running on top the frame to the bottom of the frame on a  sharp edge  , it was hard to find that one , it would blow the fuse as soon as I engaged 4wd when I was still running the electric front diff  , even though I doubt any of those wires  would have an  affect on the ES circuit would be in that area , just makes me think you could  have a wiring problem , have seen some crazy things with wires , some times the wires will corrode inside of the outer covering and look good 

 

Maybe try the CDI oven baking method on your controller , it might have dampness inside 

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Retro, I will check the fuses today and see if any have blown. I only have a multimeter and I don't think it'll measure amps that high, ill just borrow one. So what is the amperage that should be coming from the shift motor?

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3 hours ago, Fishfiles said:

Jeremy , after conversing with you last night in chat you seem like a nice guy , thank you for your service again , you remind me of me , LOL

 

 I feel like trying to help you out some more , what's about you pay shipping via pay-pal before I send it , if it fixes your problem , then send me $40 for a couple of cases of Coors Lite Long Necks as I know your a beer guy also , LOL ,   if it doesn't fix your problem ship it back to me , for two reasons , it might not work for you as it wasn't your problem but might work for someone else ,  and it would prevent you from saying it didn't work and just keep it , not that  I think you would do that , just protecting myself as I don't really know you ----- 

 

  Retro has kind of scared me that it could be burnt up as soon as it is plugged in , shoot , I don't even know if it works and have no way to put it on a atv and test it -----

 

I do have a coupe of 450s , neither are ES , but I have seen the wiring harness rub on the bottom side of the frame under the seat area where the harness goes from the running on top the frame to the bottom of the frame on a  sharp edge  , it was hard to find that one , it would blow the fuse as soon as I engaged 4wd when I was still running the electric front diff  , even though I doubt any of those wires  would have an  affect on the ES circuit would be in that area , just makes me think you could  have a wiring problem , have seen some crazy things with wires , some times the wires will corrode inside of the outer covering and look good 

 

Maybe try the CDI oven baking method on your controller , it might have dampness inside 

Thank you again, I am going through it right now checking fuses and I am going to look for frayed and open wires. I will message you tonight and prob take you up on you offer, again thank you. I will have to make a new PayPal as they closed mine for lack of activity, unless you happen o have Venmo. I will keep everyone updated. Also I forgot to mention earlier I have a feeling the original owner was having issues he couldn't figure out because it came with an extra oring for the control motor when I bought it and he cut the plastic down buy the emergency shifter as well. 

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can you contact the previous owner, and find out more detail, like if the bike set up, had mice or rodent damage, if it was mudded, if anyone worked on the bike, added / made mods? just a genaral history ... 

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31 minutes ago, _Wilson_™ said:

can you contact the previous owner, and find out more detail, like if the bike set up, had mice or rodent damage, if it was mudded, if anyone worked on the bike, added / made mods? just a genaral history ... 

I am the third owner as far as I know, the guy I bought it off only had it a few months, bought it for his kid and he never rode it. I have the bill of sale from their transaction so I know he didn't own it long. The original owner was an older guy who used it to plow his driveway. He sold the house and the foreman. It is a real clean looking machine even the plastics are in great shape, it even has the original tires on it, has had 2100 miles when I bought it and around 856 hours. 

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Ok holy crap, so I went through every and I mean every connector I could find and cleaned them out, even if it didn't have to do with the esp. Used QD electronic cleaner and more dielectric grease. I also took out the ecm and put it against my space heater I have in my garage for a good while. I put everything back in and the wheeler is shifting fine. One thing though, I do not have my winch hooked up to the battery. Now last time, time before last it was acting up I did the same thing, this was when the old winch was in it and it drove fine for a bit. Do you think the winch might have anything to do with the shifting issue? This new one is brand new with all new wiring and relay switch. I think I am going to leave it disconnected for awhile and ride to see if it might be that or just coincidence. As always thank you all for the help

 

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4 hours ago, Jemmons467 said:

So what is the amperage that should be coming from the shift motor?

 

That is a great question! I do not know the answer but I think I can find out today. I'll get back with y'all later....

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Just now, retro said:

 

That is a great question! I do not know the answer but I think I can find out today. I'll get back with y'all later....

Well now the darn thing is shifting and running fine, well felt like it wanted to stall out when turning at slow speed 

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A while back someone posted about a problem here that they eventually discovered was caused by the way the winch had been wired. I can't remember the thread... but you may be right in your case as well, there might be a parasitic current draw on the electrical system caused by the winch electrics?

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3 minutes ago, Jemmons467 said:

Well now the darn thing is shifting and running fine

 

Don't need a new ECM then huh. 🙂 Congrats man, I feel like you about to win!

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1 minute ago, retro said:

A while back someone posted about a problem here that they eventually discovered was caused by the way the winch had been wired. I can't remember the thread... but you may be right in your case as well, there might be a parasitic current draw on the electrical system caused by the winch electrics?

I wired it per the instructions that came with it, ill have to check around and see what I can find. I need the winch because thats what lifts my plow, its a heavy ! swisher plow too

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Ok, I just opened the fuse box on my '00 Rancher 350 ES, started the cold motor (oil temp = 30 degrees F) and removed the 30 amp shift motor fuse. I switched my multimeter mode to Amps and set the Min/Max feature to capture Max current draw, then held the meter leads onto the two 30a motor fuse sockets and began to shift up/down through the gears using the buttons on the handlebar while the cold motor was idling. I shifted up & down several times all the way to 5th gear and back to reverse & neutral, perhaps a dozen iterations or so.... as you can see in the photo below the Maximum current the cold shift motor consumed was 5.992 Amps after a dozen or so shift cycles/iterations. The minimum current draw was 5.668 amps (occurred on the first upshift from neutral to 1st gear).

 

The '00-'06 Rancher 350 shift motor is identical to the '98-'04 450 shift motors (all components the same), they just have different nose castings for attachment to their respective front engine covers, so their measured current consumption should be the same. My Rancher ES (and entire electrical system) was thoroughly prepped three years ago using NLGI #2 synthetic grease as per my ES preps tutorial and was reopened/inspected a year later so that I could gauge its effectiveness and condition after its first full year in service. So my 5.992 amps max current consumption should be considered to be a legitimate and ideal result.

 

If your shift motor draws more than 10% more current than mine does, it should be replaced with a new OEM and prepped before installation. Excessive shift motor current consumption overstresses and can fry an ECM.... as listed in my tutorial, reducing friction to minimize current requirements is one of the main reasons why thorough ES preps are so important. Let us know what you learn about yours...

 

shift-motor-current.png

 

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This has been the best ES troubleshooting thread I think I ever read , hoping it turns out well .... 

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I could think of a few  reason why Jeremy's ES just started shifting again , guess it would be  impossible to single one out now  , 1)   the re-cleaning and greasing of the electrical connectors and controller  2) the moving around of wiring while cleaning all the plugs  3) the controller being put by the heater 4) the disconnecting of the winch cables 5) moving the battery terminals around while disconnecting the winch 6) coincidence 

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Time for the forensics team to make their appearance huh. 🙂

 

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@retro I will try this tomorrow, i just got done driving around, put another 5 miles on it with my son in the fields. Shifted great the whole time even stopped and shut the machine off a handful of time to build snowmen. I will let you know what I get when I do it.

@Fishfiles glad to help

I think #1, #2, I feel #3 was a big help, #4 I will reconnect tomorrow and see how it goes, #5 I did do a light sand on the cable ends and greased them as well, #6 always

@retro again, I was getting to the point were I was going to drop it off at the dealer.

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Oh I think I pinched a breather line because when I turn almost all the way left it will die. To cold in the garage to take it all back apart to look

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Jemmons ,  I hate to think it , but I think it  was #6  coincidence ^^^^ , it's the nature of the beast , time will tell 

 

on the turning and killing issue , check the routing of your choke cable , it might be getting pulled or a wire harness connector being pulled from being routed wrong 

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I'll check the cable, it used to do it alittle before it took the plastics off but now its worse. I prob ziptied something to tight.

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1 hour ago, Fishfiles said:

Jemmons ,  I hate to think it , but I think it  was #6  coincidence ^^^^ , it's the nature of the beast , time will tell 

I am thinking it was a combination of all of the above along with me not swearing at it today and not throwing anything.

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8 hours ago, Jemmons467 said:

I am the third owner as far as I know, the guy I bought it off only had it a few months, bought it for his kid and he never rode it. I have the bill of sale from their transaction so I know he didn't own it long. The original owner was an older guy who used it to plow his driveway. He sold the house and the foreman. It is a real clean looking machine even the plastics are in great shape, it even has the original tires on it, has had 2100 miles when I bought it and around 856 hours. 

 

thank you! a back history if one can find out, is very helpfull sounds like the bike was well taken care, and like you say didnt have a hard life, and not tinkered with. 

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I think it may have been #7 -- stubborn persistence (cussin' & throwing things ☹️)

 

Ya got to keep your cash in your wallet thats all that matters now.

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1 hour ago, retro said:

I think it may have been #7 -- stubborn persistence (cussin' & throwing things ☹️)

 

Ya got to keep your cash in your wallet thats all that matters now.

Yah now I can get some new tires for it

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18 hours ago, _Wilson_™ said:

oh boy new tires ? what did you have in mind ? 

 

check this thread out. good information here, just don't go with china  tires.. lol! 

 

https://atvhonda.com/topic/75-favorite-tires/

 

Yah ill have to read through it again. I want something more aggressive than stock for all terrain riding but can get in the mud if need be

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