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freebo86

Adjusted Valves runs and sounds poorly

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Glad ya got the carb fixed up! You've already heard many guesses for ticking noise, it's up your ears to decide now.... 🙂

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13 minutes ago, retro said:

Glad ya got the carb fixed up! You've already heard many guesses for ticking noise, it's up your ears to decide now.... 🙂


Thats the issue. So many that I don’t even know where to begin, lol. Quite overwhelmed and frightened considering seems like the possibility is endless along with the money train that I can throw at it. 

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Continue to isolate & eliminate by breaking the issue down into small, logical, more manageable pieces. You have inspected the rocker arms, adjuster screws and valve stem tips and you have readjusted the lash properly. After adjusting the valve lash you began to hear what you assume is a mechanical noise in the motor,,.,. keep that factor in mind...

 

You have repaired the carb and now have the motor in tune. You said that you eliminated the possibility of an exhaust leak, don't know how ya did that but lets assume there are no tiny leaks anywhere in the pipe.... that means that the noise surely is a mechanical one, since only an exhaust leak can mimic a purely mechanical knock or tick.

 

Next determine whether the noise is intermittent, occurs only during certain reproducible conditions (while loaded only? under acceleration? throttle blips? deceleration? idling only?) or is constant no matter the RPM, loaded or unloaded? Try to reproduce and describe those conditions where noise occurs exactly.

 

One step at a time...

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So while I wait for my shift motor. I took the time to do some reading and also did a cold compression test. Also got my hands on a mechanical stethoscope and compression tester to see if we can pinpoint the noise.  
 

It’s been sitting now for week and testing the compression I get 80psi. This looks acceptable? Now I know the test should also be performed warm but does the cold reading tell us anything?

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This is all I get when I put the tracking number into USPS tracker   , I  did see a screen that said it left here on a truck on February 8 @ 5:20PM ---  they said 6-10 days , today is 5 days  ,  but I would think with all the weather going on it might be delayed ---- 

Tracking Number: LH130973201US

Your package is moving within the USPS network and is on track to be delivered to its final destination. It is currently in transit to the next facility.

Status

In-Transit

February 12, 2021

In Transit to Next Facility 

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4 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

This is all I get when I put the tracking number into USPS tracker   , I  did see a screen that said it left here on a truck on February 8 @ 5:20PM ---  they said 6-10 days , today is 5 days  ,  but I would think with all the weather going on it might be delayed ---- 

Tracking Number: LH130973201US

Your package is moving within the USPS network and is on track to be delivered to its final destination. It is currently in transit to the next facility.

Status

In-Transit

February 12, 2021

In Transit to Next Facility 


Yah I’ve been checking on my side (Canada Post) and it hasn’t made it into the country yet. They’ve acknowledged the package that it’s on route to here just haven’t officially pick it up up from USPS. Crossing my fingers it in my hands by end of next week! 

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On your compression issue , do you have the manual for your ATV ?     -----  I just looked at the psi , 80-120 with decompression affected , 175-210 no decompression affected , battery fully charged , throttle held wide open , at  450 RPMS 

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1 minute ago, Fishfiles said:

On your compression issue , do you have the manual for your ATV ?     -----  I just looked at the psi , 80-120 with decompression affected , 175-210 no decompression affected , battery fully charged , throttle held wide open , at  450 RPMS 


I do have the manual as the the 80-120 but wasn’t sure what decompression is. What is this decompression? 
 

 

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There is a compression release mechanism built on to the camshaft ,  it aids by  making starting easier -----The reading you are getting now is decompression affected and the 80psi you are getting is within the specs at the  low end , to get not affected compression, you would loosen the exhaust valve adjustment and redo the test-------   I think the 80 your getting is fine , let it roll 

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14 hours ago, Fishfiles said:

There is a compression release mechanism built on to the camshaft ,  it aids by  making starting easier -----The reading you are getting now is decompression affected and the 80psi you are getting is within the specs at the  low end , to get not affected compression, you would loosen the exhaust valve adjustment and redo the test-------   I think the 80 your getting is fine , let it roll 


Thanks! Next up is to fire this thing up again and use the stethoscope to see if I can pinpoint that noise where it was coming from. 

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On 1/18/2021 at 9:16 PM, retro said:

My .02 cents on the valve train noise (I fixed a 450 with ALL of these conditions about a year ago):

 

I am guessing that the valve lash was run excessively loose for so long that the top of the valve stems are hammered out & cupped. The lash adjuster screws are mushroomed bad too, so no way ya gonna be able to properly adjust the lash on either valve using a flat feeler gauge.

 

Also the camshaft and lifters may have become worn & hammered out on the base of the cam lobe ramps, so much that valve lash may be a lot looser at the bottom of the lobe ramps compared to the centers of the base circle (where lash adjustment is done). The cam chain & tensioner block is probably shot too, due to all the hammering shock over time.

 

So.... cam, lifters, chain, tensioner, both valves and both lash adjuster screws are probably shot. Hammering shocks may have loosened up a valve guide in the head too. A guide might be moving up & down with it's valve while its running.

 

Inspect the lash screws and valve stem tips (look for a loose guide too) to learn whether ya might have serious damages or not?

This was the case with my 88 TRX350D Foreman. Rocker surfaces that ride on the cam were so worn they were cupped. I was fortunate that everything else was still within spec. I replaced rockers and installed a new piston 0.5mm oversized and it runs like a champ now. And it was super noisy no matter what I did to adjust the rocker lash. Now its super quiet.

 

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On 2/3/2021 at 7:20 PM, freebo86 said:


Thats the issue. So many that I don’t even know where to begin, lol. Quite overwhelmed and frightened considering seems like the possibility is endless along with the money train that I can throw at it. 

Does this model have the fuel pump that ticks when its pumping? My fuel pump is fairly audible and It was a semi continuous to semi random ticking rythm.

 

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To circle back on this. I’ve had enough of this bike. 
 

While waiting for the shift control motor I puttered around the yard. Once this bike gets warm it ain’t starting. I don’t know what’s going on with it but it simply doesn’t start.

 

it has spark, fuel, air im at my wits end. 
 

last weekend I fixed a buddies artic cat, took the carb apart put it together she runs the very best. So clearly it’s not something I’m doing wrong with the carb. 
 

im just fed up. I’ve spent more time on my back with this thing than I have on the actual seat. 

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18 minutes ago, Tim-ANC said:

Fuel tank vent?

 

Nope. Cleaned the hose. All is good. 
 

 

16 minutes ago, retro said:

Sent ya a PM @freebo86


replied. 

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Hang in there freebo' , it's always darkest before the dawn ----  one time the grass looked greener  on the other side of the fence to me  , jumped the fence for those  greener pastures , realized the pasture  was better where I was , tried to jump back over the fence and landed face first in cow crap , all in mouth and up my nose , taught a valuable lesson , don't give up so quick on what you got just cause it looks better else where 

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okay let's head back... a few, I'm still thinking a wire short, or plug connection,  because it won't run, when hot, but runs fine when its cold ? which was what it was doing before hand, but the bike will turn over ? hot, or cold ? 

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The bike turns over and cranks just it won’t get fire up.

 

it has spark. 
 

So my muffler repair.. turns out baffle broke off inside again.. so this could possible be part of my running issue?

 

will mufflers from another model fit this ! thing or does it need to be a 450?

Edited by freebo86
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in your 1st post before any repairs were made, it had the same issue, so did this running issue get worse after the exhaust repair ?  it doesn't seem like it would change from cold to hot from a blockage in the exhaust, i would think the issue would be there all the time if it was the exhaust. 

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Just now, _Wilson_™ said:

in your 1st post before any repairs were made, it had the same issue, so did this running issue get worse after the exhaust repair ?  it doesn't seem like it would change from cold to hot from a blockage in the exhaust, i would think the issue would be there all the time if it was the exhaust. 


No. I haven’t touched the exhaust. This issue developed over the last 2 months. I’ve had the bike for about 3.5.. and tackled the exhaust fix as one of the first things of ownership. During that first month and half the bike ran great and didn’t show any issues of starting. 
 

The starting HOT issue came even before I touched the valve adjustments.. 

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