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freebo86

Adjusted Valves runs and sounds poorly

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1 minute ago, _Wilson_™ said:

can you link me to the very 1st thread you posted about this bike ? something here just doesn't add up. 


here you go. 


 

This thing is completely loose.. guess my welds sucked..

image.jpg

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Now the question is how do I weld this back together.. the muffler is quite thin material. Last time I borrowed gas to connect to my welder from a dude but don’t feel like doing it again..


any idea if those jb weld style pastes or whatever they are could work? 

 

 

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hold on. 

 

yeah, I'd say so, was going to suggest .... getting a Donner exhaust. you had mentioned back firing in the other post when you let off the throttle ... and 3 times rebuilding the carb ? and retro mentioned an air shut off valve ... I'm not saying any of these would effect the running issue while hot, or cold, just going of what information has been posted, and from the looks she's running a tad rich, when you try and start it when it's hot, is there an overwhelming smell of gas ? and it never hits ? 

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1 minute ago, _Wilson_™ said:

hold on. 

 

yeah, I'd say so, was going to suggest .... getting a Donner exhaust. you had mentioned back firing in the other post when you let off the throttle ... and 3 times rebuilding the carb ? and retro mentioned an air shut off valve ... I'm not saying any of these would effect the running issue while hot, or cold, just going of what information has been posted, and from the looks she's running a tad rich, when you try and start it when it's hot, is there an overwhelming smell of gas ? and it never hits ? 


No smell of gas.. 

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11 hours ago, Fishfiles said:

Hang in there freebo' , it's always darkest before the dawn ----  one time the grass looked greener  on the other side of the fence to me  , jumped the fence for those  greener pastures , realized the pasture  was better where I was , tried to jump back over the fence and landed face first in cow crap , all in mouth and up my nose , taught a valuable lesson , don't give up so quick on what you got just cause it looks better else where 


I have a hard time accepting this right now. It’s not looking positive and hasn’t been since almost acquiring this. I had a few short trips where it worked the very best and then it went to crap. 
 

Don’t know what to do anymore at this point. This exhaust thing I’m 99% confident won’t make a difference and I’ll be back at square 1. 
 

Doing research, from the possibilities what it could be I’d be looking at basically needing a truck full of parts to figure this out and maybe take out a second mortgage. 
 

 

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I really hate to see you give up !!  ----  Walk away for a bit , many times that works for me , when I go back to the job at hand , what ever it is  , things seem to go better 

 

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9 hours ago, freebo86 said:

Now the question is how do I weld this back together.. the muffler is quite thin material. Last time I borrowed gas to connect to my welder from a dude but don’t feel like doing it again..


any idea if those jb weld style pastes or whatever they are could work? 

 

65AB186D-898C-469B-9028-2486F9C8DE99.jpeg

Get some brazing rods and use a hand torch

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If you have a small mig you can do 2 different things, put it on low voltage and just slowly build up a sealed weld, or if you have a similar piece of scrap you can cut strips and cover the gap and weld all around. You can focus more of your heat on the patch doing it this way.

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Buddy welded it up. Got it patched. Reinstalled muffler fires first go. 
 

let it ran for a good 20-30min. Turn off, again won’t go. Here is compression warm.. I guess this could be the problem...

 

Its outside. Going to leave it for a couple of hours and take reading again once it’s cold. 

B8EF5EE3-0F76-4983-BE82-D713F53BB475.jpeg

Edited by freebo86
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i too am glad your not giving up, you've got alot of work / time invested in theis bike, and have come along ways, hang in there. 

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Not a waste of time or money imo.

how long you been wrenching on quads?you’re learning about how these machines work—they’re complicated. get into the manual and review the diagnostics. Look for more clues.
 

how’s plug look now? Sooty? Is it the right plug spec?
 

when it quits, does engine feel really hot?


When switching on Does oil light come on momentarily and then go out?

 

Need more clues 

 

 

 



 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Goober said:

Not a waste of time or money imo.

how long you been wrenching on quads?you’re learning about how these machines work—they’re complicated. get into the manual and review the diagnostics. Look for more clues.
 

how’s plug look now? Sooty? Is it the right plug spec?
 

when it quits, does engine feel really hot?


When switching on Does oil light come on momentarily and then go out?

 

Need more clues 

 

 

 



 

 

 

 

Wrenching on quads is brand new to me. I’ve been wrenching on cars, jeeps for a while. first ATV however. 
 

plug I posted a few posts prior. It was white. Just now? It’s sotty. Depends on the day of the week what it looks like. 
 

engine feels normal. Not abnormally hot or cold.

 

yes oil light comes on, goes off. Fan kicks on when it needs to. 
 

what else you want to know. 
 

just came in it has sat for 3.5hrs. Test compression again just above 60.. wait 5minutes try again shoots up to 75-80.. 

 

remove tester, connect spark plug. Fire it up. Turns on, runs like !. Seems only want to run on choke.. again every day is a different scenario or symptom. 

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sooty plug.

Only runs on choke.

carb is dirty, not tuned properly and/or choke is stuck open.

replace choke valve.


Consider taking to shop. ~$300.

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On 1/24/2021 at 1:35 PM, retro said:

Was there a rubber plug stuffed into the end of the starter jet passage? Did it fit the hole snugly and provide a good seal?

 

plug.png

 

Just a question? the rubber plug was bad on the 2000ES 450, so i made my own contraption. different site, different page., does the rubber plug only come with certain carb kits?

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You have to buy the Honda carb gasket kit Ted. It’s the best way i found to get one. Might be able to get them separately Like from a motorcycle carb kit but I haven’t found a good part number

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from the pic of the guts of the peeled exhaust, yeah she's running rich, but you had rebuilt this carb 3 times ? it's not been mentioned yet, and probobly isn't the issue but what about vapor  lock ? as you say it won't run when hot, if you could ... post a pic of the spark plug (that's been in for a while) 

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You have cleaned/jetted the carb, then gutted the exhaust & should now re look at the carb. That WILL change your settings! 

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1 hour ago, _Wilson_™ said:

from the pic of the guts of the peeled exhaust, yeah she's running rich, but you had rebuilt this carb 3 times ? it's not been mentioned yet, and probobly isn't the issue but what about vapor  lock ? as you say it won't run when hot, if you could ... post a pic of the spark plug (that's been in for a while) 


88B68986-803A-46F9-9A3F-74491D8AD72E.jpeg

 

10 minutes ago, Wheeler said:

You have cleaned/jetted the carb, then gutted the exhaust & should now re look at the carb. That WILL change your settings! 


I never jetted anything, the carb was taken apart and cleaned. All stock jets. What settings can I change?  Air/pilot screw? Idle screw? Messed with both today until blue in the face. When the quad is cold and starts when it wants to run good it runs good, throttle is there and it’s snappy. 

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Your base ring is too black. So either too rich or oil blow by. However the electrode looks good so I’d say too rich. Your porcelain is too black as well. I’m going to conclude you’re too rich in one circuit. 

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If your quad won’t start hot but starts hood cold.. my guess is your pilot circuit or AF isn’t correct. When cold it needs more fuel. When hot (where u have issue starting) it doesn’t. 

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Just cleaning a carb sometimes isn’t enough—those seals can get worn and flat. Especially the little one in pilot jet. I recommend you get a carb rebuild kit. They are about $30.

i haven’t rebuilt a carb from this model before.

i always replace the choke valve when I rebuild a carb ($40). That conical seal gets hard and ... doesn’t seal

Edited by Goober

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yeah just a tad on the rich side from what i see. in one of your post you didn't know if the carb had a china kit, but you rebuilt this carb three times ? correct ? did you go with a shindy carb kit ? i think (personaly) with it running fine cold, and not when hot there's more going on then just the carb, even with a slightly rich running motor, it should still try and fire off, next time it's hot give it a small shot of starting fluid. my guess is it will fire off. unless it's an electrical issue, if it fires off , then you have a fuel / carb issue or bad plug (more then likely) 

 

its getting clean fuel ? has a good spark, doesn't miss, or studder ? when cold, or hot ? (just will not start hot when you shut it off ?)  and no exhaust blockage ? new nkg spark plug ? i might replace the spark plug, and let the bike run for a while after if warms up, and go from that point. 

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9 hours ago, freebo86 said:

just came in it has sat for 3.5hrs. Test compression again just above 60.. wait 5minutes try again shoots up to 75-80.. 

 

remove tester, connect spark plug. Fire it up. Turns on, runs like !. Seems only want to run on choke.. again every day is a different scenario or symptom.

 

I have a hunch that the exhaust valve may be hanging open due to the automatic compression release sticking. Do you mind testing for that possibility by readjusting the exhaust valve lash to .015" temporarily?

 

EDIT: The comp release doesn't have to be stuck to hold the exhaust valve open when it should be closed... it could have a worn out exhaust lobe on the cam and/or a worn out lifter which could allow for a perfectly functional comp release to hold the exhaust valve open. Adjusting the exhaust lash to .015" (.38mm) would reveal any of those problems though.

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6 hours ago, Goober said:

Just cleaning a carb sometimes isn’t enough—those seals can get worn and flat. Especially the little one in pilot jet. I recommend you get a carb rebuild kit. They are about $30.

i haven’t rebuilt a carb from this model before.

i always replace the choke valve when I rebuild a carb ($40). That conical seal gets hard and ... doesn’t seal

 

sorry, should of stated. Yes I used a carb rebuilt kit, shindy. That kit doesn’t come with the choke plunger tho, none seem to do. so I didn’t just clean the carb but actually rebuilt it with the exception of the choke as mentioned.
 

 

4 hours ago, _Wilson_™ said:

yeah just a tad on the rich side from what i see. in one of your post you didn't know if the carb had a china kit, but you rebuilt this carb three times ? correct ? did you go with a shindy carb kit ? i think (personaly) with it running fine cold, and not when hot there's more going on then just the carb, even with a slightly rich running motor, it should still try and fire off, next time it's hot give it a small shot of starting fluid. my guess is it will fire off. unless it's an electrical issue, if it fires off , then you have a fuel / carb issue or bad plug (more then likely) 

 

its getting clean fuel ? has a good spark, doesn't miss, or studder ? when cold, or hot ? (just will not start hot when you shut it off ?)  and no exhaust blockage ? new nkg spark plug ? i might replace the spark plug, and let the bike run for a while after if warms up, and go from that point. 

 

plug is new, one of the first things I replaced when I got it. Went with what’s written in the service manual for type. 

Edited by freebo86
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