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freebo86

Adjusted Valves runs and sounds poorly

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16 minutes ago, retro said:

Thanks for testing! You will need to replace the camshaft, both lifters, cam chain and the chain tensioner shoe to fix it. Before we go any further can you tell us how many hours/miles/kms are on it? Does the motor consume any oil over time...? Does it puff smoke on cold startup?


Yes, it puffs smoke on cold start for a bit. Then disappears. It does burn some oil. 
 

there is 13k kilometres on this. 1000hrs. 
 

EDIT: walked away for 10minutes from machine to let it cool off.. turn it back on and now there is no engine noise and it runs okay even the throttle seems super responsive and strong..

 

like what is going on! 

Edited by freebo86

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Ok, thanks!

 

The compression is low... it is below the minimum spec by 3 PSI, so that's very discouraging.... The cam/lifters are worn out or damaged. The valve seals are probably shot too, which could explain the smoky startups and oil consumption, but the low compression indicates that there may be more to it than a bad cam and bad valve seals..... So minimum, you'll need to replace the camshaft components, but it is likely that the cylinder & piston/piston rings may be on their last legs as well.

 

How's your budget looking? Can you cover a topend refresh as well as cam component replacements?

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4 minutes ago, retro said:

Ok, thanks!

 

The compression is low... it is below the minimum spec by 3 PSI, so that's very discouraging.... The cam/lifters are worn out or damaged. The valve seals are probably shot too, which could explain the smoky startups and oil consumption, but the low compression indicates that there may be more to it than a bad cam and bad valve seals..... So minimum, you'll need to replace the camshaft components, but it is likely that the cylinder & piston/piston rings may be on their last legs as well.

 

How's your budget looking? Can you cover a topend refresh as well as cam component replacements?


I looked at the camshaft diagram on partzilla, besides the camshaft, cam chain and tensioner I don’t know what else you referred to id need. 

 

The top end from what I saw looked like a couple hundred bucks unless I’m looking at wrong stuff? 

What would be the logical place to start at and see what’s actually salvageable here or what should take priority. 

 

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Well, we have learned that the camshaft, lifters, cam chain and chain tensioner shoe, front cover gasket, and both valve seals will need to be replaced for sure. So those are priority.... The only way to be sure about the cylinder, piston & rings condition is to take it apart for measurements.

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On 2/21/2021 at 7:47 PM, Goober said:

You have to buy the Honda carb gasket kit Ted. It’s the best way i found to get one. Might be able to get them separately Like from a motorcycle carb kit but I haven’t found a good part number

that was a while back, now i remember sorta, Moose Racing., or something like that.. it was supposed to be Honda atv parts, but that was missing from the carb gasket set.

the only reason i'm dragging this on is, honda atv owners, need to find the best place to get parts for their carburetor or kits.

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I would take the head & cylinder off for inspection and to check the wrist pin & top of the rod if I were working on it.

 

It is known to be a noisy motor and has low compression, so it's likely got more than cam components that are going bad. Topend inspection & measurements only costs ya new gaskets if all proves to be well in there, so I would take the topend apart at the same time the front cover is off to learn the total costs of repairs before buying any parts if I were you.

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26 minutes ago, retro said:

Well, we have learned that the camshaft, lifters, cam chain and chain tensioner shoe, front cover gasket, and both valve seals will need to be replaced for sure. So those are priority.... The only way to be sure about the cylinder, piston & rings condition is to take it apart for measurements.


Thanks. So for the first items are the circled items what you are referring to? Those rods are the lifters? What is the tension shoe? Are those just the guides in a different terminology? I assume it’s under the cam chain parts diagram?
 

 

0503E01B-EFF4-4240-917A-E8491B5F3E17.jpeg

 

The top end to come off seems fairly easy. 

Edited by freebo86

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You'll need #1 (valve seals), #2 (camshaft) and #4 (lifters) from that parts fiche. You may need #22 (bearing) if you buy a new camshaft. A good used cam & lifters would probably be OK if ya want to save a few bucks.

 

The chain... I recommend buying a genuine D.I.D chain (eBay has them) because they are cheaper than OEM chains and D.I.D are an OEM chain supplier anyway. So buy D.I.D direct from a seller and save a few bucks.

 

On the chain parts fiche you may need #6 (guide) & #3 (tensioner). I would take it apart before buying them though, in case your parts are reusable.

 

MjAxOTg2Nw-cfbb5886.png

 

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23 minutes ago, freebo86 said:

The top end to come off seems fairly easy. 

 

Yup, it's easy. You can take the topend apart before you take the front cover off, then the cam chain tensioner bolts (two bolts under the cylinder) will be easier for you to remove when you take the camshaft & lifters out.

 

EDIT: Label each lifter cup (intake/exhaust) when you pull them out of the block.

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47 minutes ago, retro said:

 

Yup, it's easy. You can take the topend apart before you take the front cover off, then the cam chain tensioner bolts (two bolts under the cylinder) will be easier for you to remove when you take the camshaft & lifters out.

 

EDIT: Label each lifter cup (intake/exhaust) when you pull them out of the block.


Thanks. Here is my question, pulling these components for example on the camshaft is it going to be evident that it’s worn or damaged?


Also, under the cam chain diagram. I always thought when everyone says to replace the cam chain tensioner they referred to as #4. What is that then? If your saying I’d need #3?

 

 

Edited by freebo86

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50 minutes ago, freebo86 said:

Here is my question, pulling these components for example on the camshaft is it going to be evident that it’s worn or damaged?

 

Yes.

 

50 minutes ago, freebo86 said:

Also, under the cam chain diagram. I always thought when everyone says to replace the cam chain tensioner they referred to as #4. What is that then? If your saying I’d need #3?

 

Number 3 is the chain tensioner block, number 4 is the tensioner lifter:

 

chain.png

 

You may need #3 because it has a plastic block that rides against the chain to maintain tension and the plastic wears out. Don't buy anything until you've taken it apart and verified that you need to though.

 

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The mechanical aspect isnt what's scaring me. I've had my fair share of mechanical experiences (non ATV) related. I got the place, tools and means to do it... Its more or less the ATV value + time + cash investment that is required where I am sour about. And trying to figure out is it worth it.

 

Bundle that with the fact I am missing out on some fun times now due to this.. I get a bit angry. Lol.

 

Anyways, I've done some Shopping Carts with a few of the items mentioned to get a idea of what cost I am looking at. Of course that will all depend what is actually worn and what is needed as per @retro.

 

Plan is tonight to take the top off to inspect that, then after that front engine cover. 

 

 

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If it comes to having the cylinder bored and piston replaced ,  I'd go with G+H Discount , the process takes 2 weeks with shipping and cost right about $220 with shipping both ways , they will bore the jug , give you a Shindy piston , rings , wrist pin , keepers ,  valve stem seals , exhaust gasket and everything you need to do the top end -----   I forget your in Canada , they are an International company ,  but I bet the shipping would be delayed ---- did you ever get the shift motor ? 

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9 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

If it comes to having the cylinder bored and piston replaced ,  I'd go with G+H Discount , the process takes 2 weeks with shipping and cost right about $220 with shipping both ways , they will bore the jug , give you a Shindy piston , rings , wrist pin , keepers ,  valve stem seals , exhaust gasket and everything you need to do the top end -----   I forget your in Canada , they are an International company ,  but I bet the shipping would be delayed ---- did you ever get the shift motor ? 

 

No go amigo on the package.

 

I got some buddies around, that have connections to machine shops etc. that I can probably get the piston/cylinder etc. figured out if needed come time.

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I hear ya regarding the time/money/value. I purchased my 88 350D Foreman for $900, sold the snow plow for $200. So started at $700. had to replace the rockers (used and nearly impossible to find), piston/rings/gaskets, had cylinder bored out to eliminate scoring from lack of oil or overheated (that made me nervous about other engine internal damage), two new front tires, replaced all lubes, purchased a seat pan (PO made one out of metal that didn't fit quite right), new foam, new seat cover, I probably have total of $1400 including the original purchase price. It's a Honda. They run forever if you take care of them. the PO who also purchased it new didn't maintain the engine oil as well as he should have I suspect. But, the engine runs like a champ now and the suspension and drive train are super tight. It's a solid ATV now. It would be about $8k for a new equivalent. Which is still tempting but I don't need it. so...

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3 hours ago, jdlmodelt said:

I hear ya regarding the time/money/value. I purchased my 88 350D Foreman for $900, sold the snow plow for $200. So started at $700. had to replace the rockers (used and nearly impossible to find), piston/rings/gaskets, had cylinder bored out to eliminate scoring from lack of oil or overheated (that made me nervous about other engine internal damage), two new front tires, replaced all lubes, purchased a seat pan (PO made one out of metal that didn't fit quite right), new foam, new seat cover, I probably have total of $1400 including the original purchase price. It's a Honda. They run forever if you take care of them. the PO who also purchased it new didn't maintain the engine oil as well as he should have I suspect. But, the engine runs like a champ now and the suspension and drive train are super tight. It's a solid ATV now. It would be about $8k for a new equivalent. Which is still tempting but I don't need it. so...

 

I hear ya lol.

 

Anyways, went to the local dealer pricing isn't as bad as I had anticipated either.

 

Guess stay tuned for part photos tonight of the stuff removed.. I'm sure everyone will be excited about that. I looked at the service manual for checking some tolerance on the rings, head, valves not sure I'll be able to determine some of that if its within the service limit. So how we determine if my components are good or bad.. I'll leave to the pros on here! 

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Are you close to Ark? u might be able to take it to Shadetree or another member that does this work.

 

not trying to sign anyone up but some of these guys might be interested 

Edited by Goober
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Just now, Goober said:

Are you close to Ark? u might be able to take it to Shadetree or another member that does this work.

 

Very very far from there lol.

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So stumbled on this.. 2001 450ES engine.. 9k kilometers on it. He wants $600 for it.

 

Says has a video of it running prior to removal. Offer him $200 lol and gut the parts out of it? What's it actually worth? Look @Fishfiles even has the shift control motor lol!

 

image.png

image.png

Edited by freebo86
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How many KM on it? Is this a private seller or salvage yard? If the latter, might take yours as a core. 

 

Edit: sorry you said 9000km. Seems like a lot.

Edited by Tim-ANC
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2 minutes ago, Tim-ANC said:

How many KM on it? Is this a private seller or salvage yard? If the latter, might take yours as a core. 

 
9k km or 5.6k miles. 

 

it’s private. Has a video of it running prior to removal. Bought it for the bike frame etc. Didn’t need the engine ... so he says. 

Edited by freebo86

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While I wouldn’t plan to use any parts off this spare for the rebuild, might be useful if you found a broken part like case piece, oil pump, tranny, etc.
 

doesnt this model have a weak first gear?

sorry no maybe thinking of early 05-06 TRX500?

Edited by Goober
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