Adjusted Valves runs and sounds poorly

[_Wilson_™ 6,564]

On February 23, 2021 at 2:23 PM, freebo86 said:

So stumbled on this.. 2001 450ES engine.. 9k kilometers on it. He wants $600 for it.

 

Says has a video of it running prior to removal. Offer him $200 lol and gut the parts out of it? What's it actually worth? Look @Fishfiles even has the shift control motor lol!

 

 

this ^^^

[freebo86 291]

1 minute ago, _Wilson_™ said:

 

this ^^^

See one post ahead from this morning with reply about the engine. 

Edited February 27, 2021 by freebo86

[_Wilson_™ 6,564]

1 hour ago, freebo86 said:

The crank is.

 

thats what  i was thinking of, the rest you could part and sell. and make some of that money back, possibly. the crank might not be damaged too bad, just have to part the engine out, and give mr crank another call. 

Edited February 27, 2021 by _Wilson_™

[Fishfiles 20,145]

1 hour ago, freebo86 said:

I did, it’s from a 2001 450ES with 5.6k miles on it. The head isn’t interchangeable with a 2004 based on partzilla. The crank is. 
 

He sent me a video.. the thing sounds horrendous. Most likely everything shot inside of it. And he wants almost $600 for it. 
 

 

All the 450  heads will fit 98-2004 , same part / different part number , also a TRX400 head will fit , the only difference on that head is the combustion chamber is smaller , so more compression --- I am running a 400 head  on my 2000 450S 

[freebo86 291]

Just now, Fishfiles said:

All the 450  heads will fit 98-2004 , same part / different part number , also a TRX400 head will fit , the only difference on that head is the combustion chamber is smaller , so more compression --- I am running a 400 head  on my 2000 450S 

 

Interesting. Rally? So any 450ES head fits? 

 

8 minutes ago, _Wilson_™ said:

 

thats was i was thinking of, the rest you could part and sell. and make some of that money back, possibly. the crank might not be damaged too bad, just have to part the engine out, and give mr crank another call. 

 

I don't think mr.cank is the way to go considering I am in Canada. He even advised against it now with COVID and Shipping its a total nightmare. He's had issues with Canadian recently and shipping stuff getting lost, taking forever to show etc.

 

Here is a video of that used engine. Sounds bad, no?

 

 

[Fishfiles 20,145]

I hear you Freebo ,  I wouldn't pay $600 for an engine I didn't hear run in person , from the looks of that engine  , I wouldn't want to pay more than $100-200 , but I am not in Canada ---- it might be a good engine , but that would be a lot of work to put it in , try it and then find out you  have to  take it out again , then you might open it up and it be worst than what you got ---- if nothing else there are a lot of parts there , which might be good and would cost you a bundle paying them piece by piece 

[freebo86 291]

2 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

I hear you Freebo ,  I wouldn't pay $600 for an engine I didn't hear run in person , from the looks of that engine  , I wouldn't want to pay more than $100-200 , but I am not in Canada ---- it might be a good engine , but that would be a lot of work to put it in , try it and then find out you  have to  take it out again , then you might open it up and it be worst than what you got ---- if nothing else there are a lot of parts there , which might be good and would cost you a bundle paying them piece by piece 

 

Yah.. I wouldn't drop that engine in. I would open it up and take the pieces I need out of it and use mine. Just looking at the photos of it, kinda worries me. Here is the sales AD with some photos. I think $200 is probably all its worth without really knowing.. 

 

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-atv/moncton/honda-450es-engine/1549326172

 

[Fishfiles 20,145]

$200 I would take a chance , I never could get that video to play for me , and I am not that trusting to think that motor is 100% out the bike in the video or it could have been running before he screwed it up ------   there are some scammers out there today and times are tuff , money tight 

[_Wilson_™ 6,564]

i never could ether, no video here. but from what you say avoid it, it was just a suggestion on my end about the used motor.  

[freebo86 291]

Strange. Maybe YouTube was still rendering it. 

[bcsman 1,381]

Just played fine for me.....yea it runs but doesn't really sound healthy

[_Wilson_™ 6,564]

i just checked again ... still doesnt work, but what i gather (comments ) the engine isn't worth chancing at that price. 

[Fishfiles 20,145]

It played for me also  this time around , he should have given us a little rev up and maybe actually see the engine , LOL 

[_Wilson_™ 6,564]

yeah i just saw it here to, sounds sketchy. 

[freebo86 291]

25 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

It played for me also  this time around , he should have given us a little rev up and maybe actually see the engine , LOL 

Lol yah.. I told him straight up.. can’t trust you been ripped off already. I said the way the engine sits now and that video without seeing it first hand $150. So about $100 USD. I’d take the gamble on it. 

[Goober 1,555]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/154188161305 this advert for a head 
 

bike bandit shows they stock cranks

13000 HN0 670 

and ships in 1-2 weeks? Hmm

https://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/detail/honda/13000-hn0-670/b572101

Parts details show 13000 HN0 670 superseded by

• 13000-HM7-000 And
• 13000-HM7-830
• cross references to 1995 TRX400FW. Possibly opens up the range of parts donors?

 

this seller in Wisconsin selling rebuilt crankshaft  for TRX400FM

https://www.ebay.com/itm/324476751477

Edited February 27, 2021 by Goober

[freebo86 291]

4 hours ago, Goober said:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/154188161305 this advert for a head 
 

bike bandit shows they stock cranks

13000 HN0 670 

and ships in 1-2 weeks? Hmm

https://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/detail/honda/13000-hn0-670/b572101

Parts details show 13000 HN0 670 superseded by

• 13000-HM7-000 And
• 13000-HM7-830
• cross references to 1995 TRX400FW. Possibly opens up the range of parts donors?

 

this seller in Wisconsin selling rebuilt crankshaft  for TRX400FM

https://www.ebay.com/itm/324476751477

so based on that part 13000-HM7-000 actually fits from 99-04 Foreman 450s for crankshaft. While partzilla was originally telling me only 02-04 based on the 13000 HN0 670

 

Is there any way of knowing of a engine was sunk by looking at it from the exterior? Without hearing it running. Sounds like it’s a total gambel to buy a engine to hope parts are good inside of it?

Edited February 27, 2021 by freebo86

[retro 4,048]

8 minutes ago, freebo86 said:

While partzilla was originally telling me only 02-04 based on the 13000 HN0 670

 

It's safe to pay no attention to that.... Honda plays games with part numbers on some of their interchangeable parts, so the suppliers leverage those part number differences for profit. Bottom line is, all 450 cranks interchange (TRX400 Foreman interchanges too), all 450 heads & valves & springs etc. interchange, the 400 Foreman head has a smaller chamber but it fits on 450s as well. All 450 cams, lifters, chains, tensioners etc. interchange. All cylinders & pistons interchange as do most other motor parts depending on whether they are FM or ES specific.

 

Case in point: I rebuilt a 2000 450 Foreman motor last year that was completely shot. It needed a crank,cam chain, oil pump, clutches, topend rebore & piston kit, had a loose valve guide in the head and both valves were shot. All of the new parts that I put into that rebuild were purchased using '02-'04 part numbers because many of them were listed much cheaper than '98-01 parts. If you find more parts numbers differences or have any questions about them, keep doing what you're doing & ask in the forum. We'll help you save money everywhere you can.

[freebo86 291]

So I found a motor out of a 400, 98 - foot shift . Guy swapped it for a 450. 
 

he actually had the top end off it as someone was supposed to buy and never showed. So I could check the piston rod. Wants $200 CDN for the whole thing. 
 

I guess if the piston rod is good on this I could use the crank out of this thing?
 

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by freebo86

[retro 4,048]

Yup, if the 400 crank is good you can use that crank in your 450. But $200 for a used 400 crank is a bit pricy, I feel like you may find a better bargain than that.

[freebo86 291]

4 minutes ago, retro said:

Yup, if the 400 crank is good you can use that crank in your 450. But $200 for a used 400 crank is a bit pricy, I feel like you may find a better bargain than that.

$200 is the entire engine with top end and all. Going to look at it now. 
 

many pointers to check? The top end is pulled off it. 

Edited February 27, 2021 by freebo86

[retro 4,048]

Good point. I guess you could use the head off that 400 if you want to. Be aware that the smaller chamber of the 400 head will increase the static compression ratio on your 450 a bit. That increase can be beneficial to making torque, so as long as you have decent fuel available everywhere that deal might be sweet. I once heard that the cheapest Canadian gas is better than our cheapest in the USA, so if that is true and you can buy non-ethanol 87 octane or higher fuel at a decent price, ya likely got no worries.

[retro 4,048]

Yes, take a flashlight & a rag with you, take your old wristpin too. Wipe the oil out of the top of the rod bore and check for any play using both 400 & 450 wrist pins if possible. Inspect the top of the rod bore for any galling, rust or wear anomalies. You should be able to see a cross-hatch hone pattern in the bore, make sure that pattern is not worn away.

 

While you are checking the rod with a wrist pin inserted in it, pull & push & twist on the rod to check the bottom rod bearing the same way as you are checking the top. Normal end play in the bottom rod bearing (the rod should slide side to side on the crankpin, but no vertical  play is allowed, no twisting play either) can run anywhere from about .015" to .032". If end play exceeds .030" be wary of it but if end play is within that range it's normal.

[freebo86 291]

1 hour ago, retro said:

Yes, take a flashlight & a rag with you, take your old wristpin too. Wipe the oil out of the top of the rod bore and check for any play using both 400 & 450 wrist pins if possible. Inspect the top of the rod bore for any galling, rust or wear anomalies. You should be able to see a cross-hatch hone pattern in the bore, make sure that pattern is not worn away.

 

While you are checking the rod with a wrist pin inserted in it, pull & push & twist on the rod to check the bottom rod bearing the same way as you are checking the top. Normal end play in the bottom rod bearing (the rod should slide side to side on the crankpin, but no vertical  play is allowed, no twisting play either) can run anywhere from about .015" to .032". If end play exceeds .030" be wary of it but if end play is within that range it's normal.

 Looked at it. His rod with a brand new OEM Honda wrist pin has way more play than mine. He dropped the entire engine price down to $100. 
 

Please look at this video, this my my rod with a brand new OEM Honda Wrist Pin I picked up today to test the play and see. Is this excessive? The service limit in the manual I measured is below it. Wrist Pin is also within tolerance as its new. (If video doesn’t show may take a few minute for YouTube to render it)
 

 

[Fishfiles 20,145]

Got to give you a thumbs up freebo , your making head way , I ain't going to lie , I was bumming thinking you were going to quit