Adjusted Valves runs and sounds poorly

[Goober 1,555]

2 minutes ago, Melatv said:

At 150 C the res. should be 306 -340 ohms.   Do this with the key on -- ground the wire that you removed from oil sensor to a bare spot on the frame --fan should start -- you don't need oil in the bike to try it.

Yeah def don’t start it just activate the fan by grounding the blue to the footrest

[Goober 1,555]

1 minute ago, freebo86 said:

I tested this already, fan runs and is operational. 

Well i think you found the overheat problem👍🏻

[Melatv 789]

But the bike should have started after trailering it home in 32 F weather.

[freebo86 291]

29 minutes ago, Goober said:

Well i think you found the overheat problem👍🏻

As in the oil switch? 
 

But will this address the starting issue? 
 

I’ve cleaned the oil cooler tonight, all fins are clean and you can see through them now. 
 

Tomorrow I’m going to double check the valve clearances. 

[Goober 1,555]

Because you’re a member of the greatest ATV forum, I’ll share this secret with you: 

 

the Fan Control Unit will flicker your oil light or come on steady when it’s failing. The FCU for your 04 450ES is the same one used on the TRX400FW and...

and ... the TRX300FW fan options.

 

Pictured are the Omron part numbers

-2B is OEM for the TRX300FW Option

-2D is OEM for the 400/450

they will interchange; i done it!

right now Rocky Mountain got them listed for $144 they’re regularly $190.

 

 

[Goober 1,555]

9 minutes ago, freebo86 said:

As in the oil switch? 
 

But will this address the starting issue? 
 

I’ve cleaned the oil cooler tonight, all fins are clean and you can see through them now. 
 

Tomorrow I’m going to double check the valve clearances. 

I think replacing the temp sensor could solve your problem.

maybe lean that carb out an eighth to quarter turn.

@bcsman had some good starting tips

Edited March 18, 2021 by Goober

[retro 4,048]

The oil cooler was 40% clogged (minimum) and the oil temp sensor is way out of spec & completely junk. After you get those two issues rectified you'll probably need to work on the carb again. But you are winning! 🙂

 

[freebo86 291]

33 minutes ago, Goober said:

Because you’re a member of the greatest ATV forum, I’ll share this secret with you: 

 

the Fan Control Unit will flicker your oil light or come on steady when it’s failing. The FCU for your 04 450ES is the same one used on the TRX400FW and...

and ... the TRX300FW fan options.

 

Pictured are the Omron part numbers

-2B is OEM for the TRX300FW Option

-2D is OEM for the 400/450

they will interchange; i done it!

right now Rocky Mountain got them listed for $144 they’re regularly $190.

 

 

Yes I’ve read on the FCU failures and how the light flickers or dims etc. Mine doesn’t do that, on key ON the oil light is a nice BRIGHT RED for a moment then shuts off. Which is part of the regular procedure. I’ll keep it in mind and watch if I notice the dash light diminish in color etc. 

 

11 minutes ago, retro said:

The oil cooler was 40% clogged (minimum) and the oil temp sensor is way out of spec & completely junk. After you get those two issues rectified you'll probably need to work on the carb again. But you are winning! 🙂

 

Going to stop by the dealer tomorrow and see if they have a switch on hand. If they do not, I intended to go out on the bike this weekend, for temporary measures can I install a switch at the end of the wire that plugs into the oil sensor and run the other to ground to manually turn the fan on? Is this switch a Honda OEM only recommended purchase? Or can I support my non local Chinese comrades?
 

The oil cooler I cleaned through the fins, you’d be proud @retro. Can see through them all now. It’s looking good, it’s out there drying so I can install it tomorrow. 
 

But the carb.. serious? We still think that’s a issue? But why only when HOT? I feel like I’m not winning but only failing. 

Edited March 18, 2021 by freebo86

[Tim-ANC 202]

As I understand it, fuel rich condition will cause warmer cylinder temps.

[retro 4,048]

16 minutes ago, freebo86 said:

for temporary measures can I install a switch at the end of the wire that plugs into the oil sensor and run the other to ground to manually turn the fan on?

 

No, do not connect a manual fan switch like that, you will fry the fan control unit if you do because there is a low current voltage divider circuit on the other end of that blue wire, not a power transistor. Magic smoke will escape. 🙂

 

If you intend to connect a manual fan switch, do so on the ground wire where the fan motor connector plugs into the main wiring harness.

 

25 minutes ago, freebo86 said:

Is this switch a Honda OEM only recommended purchase? Or can I support my non local Chinese comrades?

 

I doubt if china have any Honda oil temp sensors for sale... still the answer is no, china does not export anything of value. And do not ever intend to.

 

28 minutes ago, freebo86 said:

The oil cooler I cleaned through the fins, you’d be proud @retro. Can see through them all now. It’s looking good, it’s out there drying so I can install it tomorrow.

 

Great job!

 

29 minutes ago, freebo86 said:

But the carb.. serious? We still think that’s a issue? But why only when HOT? I feel like I’m not winning but only failing. 

 

Its only speculation (based on experience) on my part... but you tuned on that carb while the motor was seriously overheating. I don't expect that your motor will agree with that compromised tune, once you've mitigated the excessive heat factor. We can't even be sure that the carb is clean and clog-free yet.

[retro 4,048]

Hold on a bit @freebo86, I will see if I have a good oil temp sensor for ya. BRB

[retro 4,048]

Welp, sorry but the only sensor I have left is out of spec. Don't throw your old sensor away after replacement freebo86, I'll buy it from you.

[Goober 1,555]

I hope they have a sensor for you.

 

My sensor has failed also but I can’t get one just now, so here’s what i did.

 

i connected the fan lead wire to a pole on a switch and the other pole to the accessory power pink wire. So when I’m running i turn on the switch and get accessory power directly to the fan.

keep in mind i made a Y connector with scrap pieces of an ignition switch—I didn’t have to cut any wires

Edited March 18, 2021 by Goober

[freebo86 291]

6 hours ago, retro said:

Welp, sorry but the only sensor I have left is out of spec. Don't throw your old sensor away after replacement freebo86, I'll buy it from you.

No sweat. But listen to this.. 
 

The sensor sat all night on the kitchen counter measured it again this morning, 11.7k first time then I tried again and I get 10.5k... so what now.. 

[Fishfiles 20,145]

3 minutes ago, freebo86 said:

No sweat. But listen to this.. 
 

The sensor sat all night on the kitchen counter measured it again this morning, 11.7k first time then I tried again and I get 10.5k... so what now.. 

Bum sensor ,  bum meter  , maybe meter operator error , LOL --

OEM Partzilla in stock 

7

SENSOR ASSY., THERMOSTAT OIL (TOYO) 37750-HC4-751   In Stock

$55.88 $54.57

 

Here is one on e-bay for $8.85 with free shipping , Chinese I would expect ( @retro these cheap sensors might be a good core for your Gizmo business ) 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Oil-Temperature-Sensor-For-Honda-TRX350-FE-FM-TRX450ES-Foreman-450-37750-HC4-751/402010326759?hash=item5d99aec6e7:g:BpwAAOSwBthfmPUm

 

 

Put a toggle switch on the fan , or hook it to a accessory wire and it will be on all the time with the key

 

I have doubts that the reason you won't start when it is hot has anything  to do with it being hot , for say  ---- next time it is hot and won't start , maybe try and give it a shot of starting fluid and see if it will pop 

[freebo86 291]

46 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

Bum sensor ,  bum meter  , maybe meter operator error , LOL --

OEM Partzilla in stock 

7

SENSOR ASSY., THERMOSTAT OIL (TOYO) 37750-HC4-751   In Stock

$55.88 $54.57

 

Here is one on e-bay for $8.85 with free shipping , Chinese I would expect ( @retro these cheap sensors might be a good core for your Gizmo business ) 

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Oil-Temperature-Sensor-For-Honda-TRX350-FE-FM-TRX450ES-Foreman-450-37750-HC4-751/402010326759?hash=item5d99aec6e7:g:BpwAAOSwBthfmPUm

 

 

Put a toggle switch on the fan , or hook it to a accessory wire and it will be on all the time with the key

 

I have doubts that the reason you won't start when it is hot has anything  to do with it being hot , for say  ---- next time it is hot and won't start , maybe try and give it a shot of starting fluid and see if it will pop 

 

When we originally started troubleshooting this (2months ago now)? After the HOT no start, I put 1/4 teaspoon fuel into the spark plug hole - same ordeal. No fire.

 

As much as you guys are cheering on and saying I am winning, I'm not feeling it boys. 

[Fishfiles 20,145]

29 minutes ago, freebo86 said:

 

When we originally started troubleshooting this (2months ago now)? After the HOT no start, I put 1/4 teaspoon fuel into the spark plug hole - same ordeal. No fire.

 

As much as you guys are cheering on and saying I am winning, I'm not feeling it boys. 

"(2 months ago now)"   , the engine wasn't in the same condition that it is now , things have changed , so what ever happened before is canceled cultured  --- here and there in the course of doing mechanic work over the years I have accidentally swallowed 1/4 teaspoon of gasoline and it wasn't enough to  even manage a fart  , LOL --- maybe the problem is too much fuel and it is flooded , next time it won't start when hot , remove  the spark plug , spin it over for a couple of seconds with no plug to clear the cylinder , put in a fresh plug and try it again 

 

" your not feeling it "  =  you can lead a horse to water , but you can't make him drink , LOL 

[Fishfiles 20,145]

Freebo , I like you , so don't take  me wrong , but I need to say  something  I have never told any one  before on the atv forums , you have said at least 10 times you are finished with this atv  >>>>  I think you need to give up on this project , sell it for what you can get for it and lick your wounds , your not cut out to be a atv mechanic and have some really bad luck to boot , you never know the history of  that atv , it  might be haunted and need an exorcism , and  you lack the most important thing , patience -----  if you really want to ride , buy a new  atv and forget about working on them , live out the warranty and then  take it to the dealership when it breaks down  ---- if it were easy , everyone would be doing it ----- LOL  ---  I am  just trying to get you to "  feel it  " !!!! Don't give up !!!! 

 

The marines say " the difficult takes a little while , where the impossible takes  just a little longer " 

 

 

[freebo86 291]

56 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

"(2 months ago now)"   , the engine wasn't in the same condition that it is now , things have changed , so what ever happened before is canceled cultured  --- here and there in the course of doing mechanic work over the years I have accidentally swallowed 1/4 teaspoon of gasoline and it wasn't enough to  even manage a fart  , LOL --- maybe the problem is too much fuel and it is flooded , next time it won't start when hot , remove  the spark plug , spin it over for a couple of seconds with no plug to clear the cylinder , put in a fresh plug and try it again 

 

" your not feeling it "  =  you can lead a horse to water , but you can't make him drink , LOL 

 

True points. 

 

30 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

Freebo , I like you , so don't take  me wrong , but I need to say  something  I have never told any one  before on the atv forums , you have said at least 10 times you are finished with this atv  >>>>  I think you need to give up on this project , sell it for what you can get for it and lick your wounds , your not cut out to be a atv mechanic and have some really bad luck to boot , you never know the history of  that atv , it  might be haunted and need an exorcism , and  you lack the most important thing , patience -----  if you really want to ride , buy a new  atv and forget about working on them , live out the warranty and then  take it to the dealership when it breaks down  ---- if it were easy , everyone would be doing it ----- LOL  ---  I am  just trying to get you to "  feel it  " !!!! Don't give up !!!! 

 

The marines say " the difficult takes a little while , where the impossible takes  just a little longer " 

 

 

 

Yup. Wise words.

 

Dealer has the sensor. 74$.

Spoke to a colleague of a colleague he has a brand new Chineesium Carb sitting for a 400. He said take it and troubleshoot with it too to see if you can get it to run if it is a fuel issue. At this point in time, I may just grab that carb and slap it on and see what happens. Maybe the entire thing just explodes and it settles it for me?

 

 

[Goober 1,555]

cool they have a new sensor. give old one to retro for the gizmo project 

 

dont waste time with a different carb. i would spend a little time building a way to manually power the fan. This way real easy to reconnect your fan back to original circuit.

 

Buy an accessory plug, wire and maybe switch that powers your fan (unless you use the accessory plug in while riding). I built one for my friend’s ATV sprayer. In the First pic you’ll see a plug and a wire—it leads to a handlebar mounted switch. The wire then goes from the switch back to the sprayer.
 

second pic is switch i used, but for my fan.

 

you could easily do the same but route the wire to the power lead on your fan—it’s already grounded. Third pic.
 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Goober

[freebo86 291]

3 minutes ago, Goober said:

cool they have a new sensor. give old one to retro for the gizmo project 

 

dont waste time with a different carb. i would spend a little time building a way to manually power the fan. 

 

you can build an accessory plug that powers your fan (unless you use the accessory plug in while riding). I built one for my friend’s ATV sprayer. In the First pic you’ll see a plug and a wire—it leads to a handlebar mounted switch. The wire then goes from the switch back to the sprayer.
 

second pic is switch i used, but for my fan.

 

you could easily do the same but route the wire to the power lead on your fan—it’s already grounded. Third pic.
 

 

Well no reason to go the ON/OFF switch route with a brand new oil sensor, no? Unless I want manual control over the fan, right?

Edited March 18, 2021 by freebo86

[Goober 1,555]

We all want the new temp sensor to work, but I like to think ahead. an accessory plug wired to your fan is the easiest cheapest backup plan. Don’t even need the switch

Edited March 18, 2021 by Goober

[Melatv 789]

To start the fan when you turn the key on --- just unplug the fan unit -- on the harness place a jumper from the pink wire to the blue wire -- If you don't what to use the oil sensor in the circuit. If you are going use the fan controller and oil sensor, the go with a switch ( as Goober posted above) 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Melatv

[jdlmodelt 38]

Freebo, when the spark plug has the black carbon build up on it and then gets exposed to a rich fuel mixture, it's most likely it will foul out, in my experience. I'm not sure why it seems to have more propensity to do that when hot as opposed to cold with your engine/carburetor. I don't recall if you installed a new, fresh out of the box spark plug when it's hot and won't start on the old plug yet?

[jdlmodelt 38]

Freebo, I don't recall, is the rubber boot between the carburetor and the cylinder in great shape with no cracks? This would vary between a cold engine and a hot engine.