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freebo86

Adjusted Valves runs and sounds poorly

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i say hang in there, you've done great so far, and we're not going to give up helping you solve this issue, think what you be think when this is all over with and the bike is once again running fine, you can be proud of you accomplishment, and will be able to help other members with similar issues, and note this is your first atv, and was not well taken care of by the PO, so the blame actually is on him. having a spark hot or cold has me baffled, which i would now think this has to be a fuel issue, i recall the gas in the spark plug hole, that should have caused a small crank over. so we now know the oil level was topped off, filter in right, oil cooler clean, so now over heating (if it was to start with, which i doubt)  shouldn't be an issue, and you say the fan is working as it should be ? how long did run this bike then shut it off ? and it would fire back up ? and i think you said as long as it's running no issues ? when warm ?  it's just when it's shut off warm it won't start again. this makes me think a carb / fuel issue. try this go for a good long ride, (keep in mind your still breaking the engine in) see how long before /if it acts up after while still running. 

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Going out on a limb here. Ignition coil or spark controller, or crank pickup sensor? I wish you were my next door neighbor. We would have this figured out. I've seen some engines make a spark but not enough of a spark to get the engine to fire over. I would think if you were getting a weaker spark after 2 hours of riding, you'd notice a loss in power before shutting it off but maybe not. I had an old TRX250 that ran super rich and I had to change the spark plug on it everytime I took it out to ride. After driving it, later that day or the next day, it would not start again until I cleaned the spark plug. The spark plug would carbon up that fast. Running WAY too rich. I never got that carburetor tuned in. Your air mixture screw, if like most carbs, should only be about 1 1/4 turns out from completely closed if you are at a higher altitude. I'm at 6400 feet.

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it fires off fine cold right just have to choke it ? and i believe you changed the spark plug a while back, there a chance of getting a brand new plug thats defective, but wouldn't explain the bike bike running fine while warm, also wouldn't explain getting a spark  cold or hot. 

 

i would go with Goobers idea on the fan which you said works. and the plug didnt look all that bad IMO, next time you shut it off hot, pull the plug after you try and start it, ( without using the choke)  if it's wet then yes flooding / fouling out is the issue. 

Edited by _Wilson_™

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Hang in there.  Maybe take a break from it if you have to. 

 

I haven't given up on one yet.  I've had to walk away from a few, sometimes for weeks, before I came back to them. 

 

But at this point, all you have to lose is your sanity, and being sane is overrated.

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2 hours ago, Goober said:

We all want the new temp sensor to work, but I like to think ahead. an accessory plug wired to your fan is the easiest cheapest backup plan.

 

New sensor is in my hand. I went and bought it. Call me crazy. I want to give up, but I want to beat this issue.

 

2 hours ago, Melatv said:

To start the fan when you turn the key on --- just unplug the fan unit -- on the harness place a jumper from the pink wire to the blue wire.

 

Thanks, Ill keep it in mind. Check your Private Messages!

 

 

Stopped by the dealer to grab the sensor, went into the service area to pick some brains. One of the guys claims had the same issue. Too tight of a exhaust valve. Said, once hit, it expands and the gap on the exhaust is too tight to get going. Thoughts?

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If the temp bulb doesn't solve, you might be able to return it.

 

Are we done with oil? @freebo86 I saw where you said you checked the tube to the cooler and it was warm. Was the tube out cooler than the input? Just thinking about oil pump and relief valve.

 

You almost got this. I know you're in a hurry because you have a ride coming up soon. If you want true pain, frustration, and despair, get yourself an old RZR 800. 😝

 

 

Edited by Tim-ANC

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Now that you mention that, the little Yamaha 80 I have that @basfnb's brother gave me wouldn't start.  I looked and valves on them have a tendency to tighten up over time, keeping them from starting.  I adjusted the valves on it and it fired right up (huge cloud of smoke, but it did fire right up LOL)

 

 

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I doubt it " very , very " seriously that fixing the fan is going to solve your problem of not starting when hot , if it does then you have some  lower engine problems , like  bad crank or crank bearings ,  the fan should be addressed one way or the other ----- I would think the problem is more towards a  bad spark plug  , valve adjustment , carb problems ,  fuel delivery , CDI  or coil producing a weak spark when hot , tank vent , maybe a cracked carb intake boot thats opening up when hot 

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1 hour ago, Tim-ANC said:

If the temp bulb doesn't solve, you might be able to return it.

 

Are we done with oil? @freebo86 I saw where you said you checked the tube to the cooler and it was warm. Was the tube out cooler than the input? Just thinking about oil pump and relief valve.

 

You almost got this. I know you're in a hurry because you have a ride coming up soon. If you want true pain, frustration, and despair, get yourself an old RZR 800. 😝

 

 

 

Both oil cooler lines were warm that run to the front crank case cover, they both felt the same so I'd say they were the same temperature. They were just warm I was able to wrap my hand around them and hold it there, it wasnt like blistering hot.

 

12 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

I doubt it " very , very " seriously that fixing the fan is going to solve your problem of not starting when hot , if it does then you have some  lower engine problems , like  bad crank or crank bearings ,  the fan should be addressed one way or the other ----- I would think the problem is more towards a  bad spark plug  , valve adjustment , carb problems ,  fuel delivery , CDI  or coil producing a weak spark when hot , tank vent , maybe a cracked carb intake boot thats opening up when hot 

 

I agree. I don't think my fan/oil switch issue is heat related. But as you said, needs to be resolved regardless.

 

The coil is right near the top head.. which is bursting hot. I guess the heat off the head could be affecting the coil.. That's another possibility.

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41 minutes ago, freebo86 said:

 

The coil is right near the top head.. which is bursting hot. I guess the heat off the head could be affecting the coil.. That's another possibility.

 

 

Do have have the heat shield between the engine and tank in place , or could it be missing ? 

 

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12 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

 

 

Do have have the heat shield between the engine and tank in place , or could it be missing ? 

 

 

Yah that white plastic piece is in place.

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Well that eliminates that thought on the heat shield  ------- 

 

are you " feeling it " today  ?  ----  when my son played Babe Ruth baseball  , they use to chant "  to win , you got to want it , and we want it bad "  and they won just about every game they played for three years straight , I really do have faith in positive thinking , cause I have a couple of friends who are very negative  , nothing good ever seems to happen for them , bad Karma --- stay positive no matter how bad it gets 

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43 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

Well that eliminates that thought on the heat shield  ------- 


Yah but that shield doesn’t separate the coil from the head? On my machine it only adds a barrier between engine and the fuel tank/seat. The coil is on the underside of the shield where the head is.. same level basically. 
 

Am I feeling it? Not sure, feel optimistic.. going out Saturday not even sure how I’ll make out considering thing don’t start when hot. May have to cover it with snow to cool it faster?

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Piling snow on it might cool the engine too rapidly though I took this as a joke. Removing the seat will help.

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1 minute ago, Tim-ANC said:

Piling snow on it might cool the engine too rapidly though I took this as a joke. Removing the seat will help.


Yah was a joke out of desperation friend! 

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5 hours ago, freebo86 said:

Both oil cooler lines were warm that run to the front crank case cover, they both felt the same so I'd say they were the same temperature. They were just warm I was able to wrap my hand around them and hold it there, it wasnt like blistering hot.

 

then it doesn't sound at all like an engine heat related issue, however the return line to the should be cooler, I'm still thinking electrical, or fuel issue, it was mentioned a while back maybe the carb was tuned while the engine was hot, never did see whether that was done or not. 

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2 hours ago, _Wilson_™ said:

 

then it doesn't sound at all like an engine heat related issue, however the return line to the should be cooler, I'm still thinking electrical, or fuel issue, it was mentioned a while back maybe the carb was tuned while the engine was hot, never did see whether that was done or not. 


The carb is set at 2-5/8s turns out as per service manual. What do you mean tuned while hot? Isn’t the air/fuel screw supposed to be tweaked with bike running?

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i thought, NO i saw a post here in the thread about tuning the carb while the engine was warm, but looks like it's gone, or edited, .now. but i do recall seeing it. due to the fact it would not start hot, but does start fine cold. 

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11 hours ago, freebo86 said:

 

New sensor is in my hand. I went and bought it. Call me crazy. I want to give up, but I want to beat this issue.

 

 

Thanks, Ill keep it in mind. Check your Private Messages!

 

 

Stopped by the dealer to grab the sensor, went into the service area to pick some brains. One of the guys claims had the same issue. Too tight of a exhaust valve. Said, once hit, it expands and the gap on the exhaust is too tight to get going. Thoughts?

I wondered about a tight valve. It would likely let you keep running after hot but not let you start back up.

 

 

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Just now, Fishfiles said:

Freebo , did you get that temp sensor installed  ?  ---- 

 

Yes sir. 

 

New Oil Temp sensor

Fresh Oil + new Filter

Checked the valve clearances last night after the initial break in. The Exhaust valve had become tighter..

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20 hours ago, jdlmodelt said:

Read this link about a guy with an 06 that turned out being jetting in the carburetor.

https://www.trx450r.org/threads/wont-start-hot.177264/

 

After reading that thread jdlmodelt linked , even though that thread  is about a 450R and not a 450ES or S and is a totally different built carb , it still  makes me farther believe your no hot start problem could be  in the carb , I remember now my 450 was not running right , I can't remember the exact symptoms  I was having , but pretty sure it is in my build thread , I do remember cleaning that carb multiple times and finally bite the bullet and bought a brand new carb and all was good after that , people say that any carb can be cleaned , I don't believe that is always true  

 

Looks like the carb part number for a 2000ES fits ES or S from 98-2001 and the code on side the carb is   (VE93A A)  , maybe it is not the right carb , maybe the carb has been rebuilt and the jets are not right , never know what the PO did , the thread is so long , I can't remember all you did with the carb 

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18 minutes ago, freebo86 said:

 

Yes sir. 

 

New Oil Temp sensor

Fresh Oil + new Filter

Checked the valve clearances last night after the initial break in. The Exhaust valve had become tighter..

 

So you waiting on daylight to try it out ?

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26 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

After reading that thread jdlmodelt linked , even though that thread  is about a 450R and not a 450ES or S and is a totally different built carb , it still  makes me farther believe your no hot start problem could be  in the carb , I remember now my 450 was not running right , I can't remember the exact symptoms  I was having , but pretty sure it is in my build thread , I do remember cleaning that carb multiple times and finally bite the bullet and bought a brand new carb and all was good after that , people say that any carb can be cleaned , I don't believe that is always true  

 

Looks like the carb part number for a 2000ES fits ES or S from 98-2001 and the code on side the carb is   (VE93A A)  , maybe it is not the right carb , maybe the carb has been rebuilt and the jets are not right , never know what the PO did , the thread is so long , I can't remember all you did with the carb 

 

The carb is is the correct number, I had it crossed with @retro and confirmed it's the right VE #. It's a few pages back.

Internals were rebuilt with a new Shindy kit.

 

25 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

 

So you waiting on daylight to try it out ?

 

Well fired it up last night, runs like a top of course. Took it around the block, no issues. Story of my life, but again it was cool.

I can't really stretch its legs or get it to super operating temps good without trailering it to trail access. Which it was getting late last night so I didn't have a chance. I don't want to just let it sit there and IDLE forever as I know it's not good for it just to get it to temp.

 

 

 

 

Edited by freebo86
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