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Bandit95

Combination meter 02 450 foreman

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Let me know what you have or have not figured out

I have an 03 450ES with the fenders off that I can

easily match up any readings that you need to confirm

Everything on mine is functioning properly

 

 

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So here's what I've done, that I remember to date

  1. Put known working shifter controls in. Quad had controls taken apart and missing pieces to find shifting issue. I verified that these new to me controls do work, and have continuity when buttons depressed. Also jumped the pinouts in the connector to bypass the controls, still nothing. Black orange to either wire
  2. Followed diag for wiring in honda manual. Checked most if not all wires that work with the es system. Only wire I found that wasn't right was the grey black wire going to CM. No continuity with ground with the plug connected, key on, and in nuetral
  3. Speed sensor tested. Has correct input voltage. And reference wire outputs 5v and speed is recorded on CM
  4. Replaced rectifier with known good rectifier
  5. Replaced angle sensor with new oem honda sensor. Original tested good
  6. ES shift motor spins with 12v, and has been cleaned inside no damage
  7. All connectors in harness are dry, with absolutely no dirt inside. Also checked over the whole harness for damage, or wire pinches
  8. Swapped ecus. One ecu is oem original. Another is Rocky mountain new oem. Both 771 codes. The old one has a steady neutral light. The new one has a flashing constantly neutral light. No codes. And no codes are retrievable. 
  9. The time on the CM resets after about a day even though the battery is being maintained at 13v+ constantly  Edit: I found this to be wrong. I unplugged the CM about every day because I work on it every day. Killing the saved time. 
  10. Swapped batteries with known good battery
  11. Tested all the fuses. They all tested good but I replaced them all anyways. 
  12. Gear position sensor records every gear on the CM and tests out good as well
  13. Checked and verified grounds and battery connections
  14. Voltage to ecu is battery standard voltage. 

The only things that stand out to me is that the grey black in the CM doesn't have continuity to ground. They both have to do with the CM and I have not been able to swap that out yet, being I don't have one available. Akatv you mentioned these two things before. 

Edit. Grounded the grey black wire just now and I hear a click from the ecu and the gear indicator goes blank. So I'm assuming now that I have a bad CM

Edited by Bandit95

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Speedometer will play no  part of a no shift situation

 I went out and removed my speedometer from my 03 Foreman 450ES and it still shifts up and down

As previously mentioned- the speedometer display is just an output device for the speed sensor to display MPH, the CPU to display codes

and the gear switch to display gear positions as well as all associated LED lights for Neutral, 4WD etc...

I would say with all your troubleshooting so far that a bad ECU causing your no shift issue

 

Now as far as time resetting you could have a bad battery or a bad component  in your speedometer

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Either way let us know what you find out, you have done some good troubleshooting so far and I think you are on top of it

I see you updated the time reset issue was due to unplugging the speedometer daily while working so- thats good

Was the ECU you got from Rocky Mountain a new Honda Part?

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The brand was elysis or something like that. And Rocky mountain site shows that as honda manufactured. Either way I'm going to try and find an ecu cause I don't trust either of them. And if the ecu still don't work then I know it's still a wiring gremlin

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On 2/20/2021 at 10:28 PM, Bandit95 said:

So here's what I've done, that I remember to date

  1. Put known working shifter controls in. Quad had controls taken apart and missing pieces to find shifting issue. I verified that these new to me controls do work, and have continuity when buttons depressed. Also jumped the pinouts in the connector to bypass the controls, still nothing. Black orange to either wire
  2. Followed diag for wiring in honda manual. Checked most if not all wires that work with the es system. Only wire I found that wasn't right was the grey black wire going to CM. No continuity with ground with the plug connected, key on, and in nuetral
  3. Speed sensor tested. Has correct input voltage. And reference wire outputs 5v and speed is recorded on CM
  4. Replaced rectifier with known good rectifier
  5. Replaced angle sensor with new oem honda sensor. Original tested good
  6. ES shift motor spins with 12v, and has been cleaned inside no damage
  7. All connectors in harness are dry, with absolutely no dirt inside. Also checked over the whole harness for damage, or wire pinches
  8. Swapped ecus. One ecu is oem original. Another is Rocky mountain new oem. Both 771 codes. The old one has a steady neutral light. The new one has a flashing constantly neutral light. No codes. And no codes are retrievable. 
  9. The time on the CM resets after about a day even though the battery is being maintained at 13v+ constantly  Edit: I found this to be wrong. I unplugged the CM about every day because I work on it every day. Killing the saved time. 
  10. Swapped batteries with known good battery
  11. Tested all the fuses. They all tested good but I replaced them all anyways. 
  12. Gear position sensor records every gear on the CM and tests out good as well
  13. Checked and verified grounds and battery connections
  14. Voltage to ecu is battery standard voltage. 

The only things that stand out to me is that the grey black in the CM doesn't have continuity to ground. They both have to do with the CM and I have not been able to swap that out yet, being I don't have one available. Akatv you mentioned these two things before. 

Edit. Grounded the grey black wire just now and I hear a click from the ecu and the gear indicator goes blank. So I'm assuming now that I have a bad CM

  1. There is 5v voltage to and from handlebar up and down switches
  2. Cleaned ground on frame
  3. Changed connections at battery (for no reason just hopes and dreams) 
  4. Bought a ecu on ebay, waiting on that
  5. Jumped the pins from the ecu 5 wire plug and the motor did shift gears

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So bought a used ecu on ebay. I chose used cause it would be a known good unit, and it was cheaper. Mostly wanted for the known good part. The oem one must have been shot. And the new oem one must have been shot, out of the box. This used ecu I got, not only do I hear the relay click with key on, it also shifts. The battery might be weak. But I get a shift. With niether previous ecus did I get a relay click from the ecu with key on. Getting there I suppose 

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Sounds like you are getting it all sorted out

Is everything working as its supposed to for you now?

Also are you able to return the new ECU to Rocky Mountain as it did not work out of the box?

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Well I bought the bike apart from a friend. Came with both ecus. I was told one is new. One is oe. The new one is just a goner I suppose. These used one I have is the only good one. So now I'm just going to put it together and get it in good shape. And ride it. It's got 1344 miles on the clock and 288 hours

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Thanks for sharing how you fixed it.

 

6 minutes ago, Bandit95 said:

So now I'm just going to put it together and get it in good shape. And ride it. It's got 1344 miles on the clock and 288 hours

 

Not so fast.... ya need to spend an afternoon prepping the ES 'fore you dare to ride it. Else you'll have your wallet bleeding money again soon.

 

 

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Still gotta bleed the brakes and fix other small things. Got all the plastics on today 

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@AKATV I  see there different part numbers for speedometers on the 450 ES , 98-2000  NLA  , 2001 NLA  and  2002 -2004 which is still available for $401 ----question is , are they different units or all the same , wonder why only one still available ---

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The later model (02 up) has selectable 4wd which also adds a light in the CM. Akatv would be able to elaborate more than I ever could

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50 minutes ago, Bandit95 said:

The later model (02 up) has selectable 4wd which also adds a light in the CM. Akatv would be able to elaborate more than I ever could

True , that 2nd gen (2002-2004)  selectable 4wd meter  is the one that is still available .   but wonder why is a 2001 showing as a stand along year 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Fishfiles said:

@AKATV I  see there different part numbers for speedometers on the 450 ES , 98-2000  NLA  , 2001 NLA  and  2002 -2004 which is still available for $401 ----question is , are they different units or all the same , wonder why only one still available ---

Hi Fish

The differences on these is mostly internal-

98-2000 450ES uses a big square LED lighting panel behind the LCD display and black bezel attaches with twist tabs behind circuit card

 

2001 450ES was first year ( and the last year for the full-time 4WD) to use 2 rows of  4 LEDs (tweezers pointing pic) on left and right side of circuit board

This change gave it he standalone part number for that year. Also, this year and thereafter the black bezel attaches to the circuit board with screws 

 

2002-2004 also uses the newer rows of LED backlighting along with an LED for 4WD on the circuit card and addition of indicator on the outer speedometer casing + harness change

 

IMG_6376.JPG

IMG_6377.JPG

IMG_6378.JPG

Edited by AKATV
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@AKATV your really up on it , so can the  2001 and the 98-2000  be switched around and work ?

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Harness and inputs are all the same

The board has its own led driver circuit so should not be a problem at all

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