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dadhustle

'01 350 ES, so many new parts, won't start

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Great! Next up is shift switches tests beginning at the ECU 22p connector:

 

switches.png

 

Then check the voltage to the Angle sensor:

 

angle-sensor-voltage.png

 

Let us know what you learn then we'll tinker with a couple of those Angle sensors that ya got.

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Okay, sorry to be away so long.. got back to it today.  We decided to shift gears; my kiddo wanted to adjust the valves.  We finished that exercise, pull rope much easier now (so hoping valve adj is solid).

 

When we tried to start, she was cranking, but wouldn't turn over.

 

*Remember when I said the bolt on the starter was lose? -well, she cranked, then solenoid clicked.  So I checked the starter and noticed the connection was lose.  -I tightened that down... Tried to start her again, she arced and bolt connection at the starter got like weld red hot.  I shut the key off and now we have no juice.. battery not even giving a reading.

 

Ugh.

 

Clear I need a starter, but what else could I have done?  -hope the pain ends w/a bad battery.

 

*All fuses are good!

*For safe keeping, I disconnected the - on the battery

 

So seems I need to pivot, fix this, as I don't think I can provide any voltage readings at the moment.

 

*Extra question: w/the valve adjustment, I 

1. Loosened the adjustment nut, set feeler gauge between the nut and top of valve (??) -as seen below.

image.png

2. Using a flathead I tightened the screw to .006 (I had a steady drag on the feeler)

3. W/out moving the screwdriver, I tightened the the adjustment nut

*As mentioned, the hand pull much easier, she cranked after, but did not start.  Yes, fuel/choke is on, spark plug wire connected, valve cover tight and flywheel TDC covered replaced 🙂

 

Any assistance is appreciated -hope to resolve this and get back to previous electrical testing.

 

 

Thanks,

RD

 

 

Edited by dadhustle
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Are you sure you are on the compression stroke , it is possible that you adjust the valves on the wrong stroke 

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It sounds to me like the negative battery cable may not be bolted down tight to a clean ground on the motor case? I'd check under both ground bolts for corrosion on the end of the black negative battery cable.

 

As Fishfiles indicated the valve adjustment that you made should be correct as long as you had the TDC mark lined up on the end of the compression stroke, rather than at the end of the exhaust stroke. If you have any doubts you may want to verify them one more time?

 

At TDC on the end of the compression stroke both valves should be completely closed. That is where you must adjust both valves. You can verify that you did it right by rotating the crankshaft one more complete revolution by hand (after you have adjusted both valves) and stop at/near the TDC mark on the flywheel again.... the exhaust valve should be closing while the intake valve is beginning to open at that crankshaft location. If so, you done it right.

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Thanks guys,

 

hmm, I didn’t realize I could be showing T in the flywheel inspection opening, but be wrong.  Saying back what I’m understanding:

 

I could be at the underline of the T but not be at tdc?  By another revolution and mark at base of the T and I’ll be on tdc?

 

The red hot arc at the starter; could be bad ground?  Any thoughts on why the battery has no reading on my multimeter?  - cable was really hot near the battery.

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10 minutes ago, dadhustle said:

Thanks guys,

 

hmm, I didn’t realize I could be showing T in the flywheel inspection opening, but be wrong.  Saying back what I’m understanding:

 

I could be at the underline of the T but not be at tdc?  By another revolution and mark at base of the T and I’ll be on tdc?

 

The red hot arc at the starter; could be bad ground?  Any thoughts on why the battery has no reading on my multimeter?  - cable was really hot near the battery.


At TDC compression couple of things you will note, 

 

- You can wiggle the valves a bit back and forth by hand. On exhaust stroke TDC they will be very tight. 
- your cam lobes will pointing down. 
 

Sequence of events as you turn the flywheel or pull the starter rope:

exhaust valve opens, exhaust valve closes - T shows up but this is exhaust stroke. 

intake valve opens, intake valve closes, T shows up again. This is compression. 
 

Run through turning the flywheel and watch the valves for a few revolution and you’ll get it bang on which stroke is what. Took me a while too. 
 

Are you able to get a reading across the battery on your bench? with the ATV cabling completely removed? If no, battery is toast and probably internally shot. 
 

If it it works on bench but not ATV then I’d say some cabling is fried that’s breaking your connection. Most likely a ground. 

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10 minutes ago, freebo86 said:


At TDC compression couple of things you will note, 

 

- You can wiggle the valves a bit back and forth by hand. On exhaust stroke TDC they will be very tight. 
- your cam lobes will pointing down. 
 

Sequence of events as you turn the flywheel or pull the starter rope:

exhaust valve opens, exhaust valve closes - T shows up but this is exhaust stroke. 

intake valve opens, intake valve closes, T shows up again. This is compression. 

Ahhh, good to know!  Will be a couple days before I can get back into, but will share back.

 

Thanks for this and the battery suggestion!

 

 

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14 hours ago, dadhustle said:

Ahhh, good to know!  Will be a couple days before I can get back into, but will share back.

 

Thanks for this and the battery suggestion!

 

 

 

How tight did you tighten that starter cable down?  If you got crazy with it, you might have broken the insulator on that starter cable stud where it's grounding out on the starter case. 

 

If you look at this brush/ rebuild kit for a starter, you'll see there are plastic insulators which keep the stud from touching the metal case on the starter and grounding out.  If you overtighten that it can cause the stud to ground out on the case, which would do what you're saying yours is doing.

 

Rebuilding one of these starters is super simple.    I'd take it off and look it over before you go tearing into a bunch of stuff.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/253577901916?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=253577901916&targetid=1068323850390&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9026054&poi=&campaignid=11612431641&mkgroupid=112841759973&rlsatarget=pla-1068323850390&abcId=9300456&merchantid=102017836&gclid=CjwKCAjw07qDBhBxEiwA6pPbHjbTKZyc1uFQrF21bIMzLebuPmFvBfVLii6AJk2TR_6mS8a-Rc9EuRoCsNoQAvD_BwE

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On 4/8/2021 at 11:25 AM, jeepwm69 said:

 

How tight did you tighten that starter cable down?  If you got crazy with it, you might have broken the insulator on that starter cable stud where it's grounding out on the starter case. 

 

If you look at this brush/ rebuild kit for a starter, you'll see there are plastic insulators which keep the stud from touching the metal case on the starter and grounding out.  If you overtighten that it can cause the stud to ground out on the case, which would do what you're saying yours is doing.

 

Rebuilding one of these starters is super simple.    I'd take it off and look it over before you go tearing into a bunch of stuff.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/253577901916?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=253577901916&targetid=1068323850390&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9026054&poi=&campaignid=11612431641&mkgroupid=112841759973&rlsatarget=pla-1068323850390&abcId=9300456&merchantid=102017836&gclid=CjwKCAjw07qDBhBxEiwA6pPbHjbTKZyc1uFQrF21bIMzLebuPmFvBfVLii6AJk2TR_6mS8a-Rc9EuRoCsNoQAvD_BwE

Thank you for this!  I realize I’m all over the place, but I previously mentioned the post being “loose”, wobbly on the starter.  I didn’t tighten ALL the way down!

 

I hope this just drained my battery, not cooked it.

 

For 13.00, I’ll give this a shot!

 

Hoping to get back to es testing soon!

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Sometimes jumping around can be bad , one of the easy  thing you pasted by , could be the ring at the end of the ride , a ES is very dependent of a full strength battery 

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On 4/9/2021 at 7:20 PM, Fishfiles said:

Sometimes jumping around can be bad , one of the easy  thing you pasted by , could be the ring at the end of the ride , a ES is very dependent of a full strength battery 

Hi @Fishfiles  I don't follow do you mean, that I need be certain the battery is fully charged? 

Edited by dadhustle

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1 hour ago, dadhustle said:

Hi @Fishfiles  I don't follow do you mean, that I need be certain the battery is fully charged? 


Yes and that the battery needs to be healthy and able to provide its capability.

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4 hours ago, dadhustle said:

Hi @Fishfiles  I don't follow do you mean, that I need be certain the battery is fully charged? 

Just fix one thing at a time , start with the easiest things to eliminate to solve a problem , jumping around will make you waste time and money  -------    the battery on a ES needs to be 100% or you are going to have some problems  

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Okay gang, so an update -thank you to @jeepwm69  -rebuild kit arrived quickly and we installed today.  -installed in no time -I think its safe to say it was needed (below) -I just hoping the starter isn't now shot.

 

Now we wait on a battery charger (should be today) and then I hope to get back to testing as guided by @retro

 

Hope to report advancing news soon!

 

Any thoughts here are appreciated!

 

 

 

IMG_2164.jpg

IMG_2165.jpg

IMG_2166.jpg

Edited by dadhustle
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Hi Gang, I'm back -battery charged and ready to resume @retro testing.

 

-I'm stumped and need to divert just a moment.  in attempting to connect the battery, soon as I touch the positive terminal, she tries to crank as though I'm pressing the electric start button.  -would seem to be I've closed a loop some place, but I don't know where.  Below are photos of the connection to the new starter kit and a markup around the black plastic bezel that sticks through through the starter post opening.  I point this out as I don't think I'm contacted there.

 

Any ideas??

 

IMG_2219.jpg

Capture.JPG

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G'morning dadhustle, your starter solenoid is stuck causing the starter motor to crank when you connect the battery cable. You'll probably need a replacement OEM solenoid, either a new or a used one. Don't waste money on a china knockoff, get an OEM Honda part that will hold up.

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dad' , if PowerSportNation doesn't have anything for you at the moment , I have learned a trick to save a lot of money on solenoids and still go OEM  , the correct number for your 2001 350 is 35850-HF1-670 and it sells for $86.78 at Partzilla , the solenoid for a 2007 420 is part # 35850-HP5-600 an sells for $25.92 , they are the exact same  ,except for the colors of the two small trigger wires , on my 300s and 450s they plug right in an work --- and I have put one on my buddies 2006 350 and it worked on his 

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29 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

dad' , if PowerSportNation doesn't have anything for you at the moment , I have learned a trick to save a lot of money on solenoids and still go OEM  , the correct number for your 2001 350 is 35850-HF1-670 and it sells for $86.78 at Partzilla , the solenoid for a 2007 420 is part # 35850-HP5-600 an sells for $25.92 , they are the exact same  ,except for the colors of the two small trigger wires , on my 300s and 450s they plug right in an work --- and I have put one on my buddies 2006 350 and it worked on his 

Thank you, I'll tuck that away.. PowerSportsNation had one -7.26 + free shipping!!

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image.jpgHi guys, solenoid is here and I’m trying to surprise my son.... back to working on the valve adjustment while waiting for him.

 

Previously, you guys mentioned, tdc on the down stroke and that the guides would be moveable..

 

I’ve cycled around to tdc and the piston is top (smallest clearance) in cylinder.  Is this correct?  Only one of the guides will move (one on right), in picture.

 

if I cycle to tdc with piston at bottom of cylinder... neither are lose.

 

what am I doing wrong?

 

update: thing I’m good.. took it apart, saw visible differences in screw setting.  
 

just wanted to spare folks from responding.

 

Thanks All

 

Edited by dadhustle

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The best way to I found to look for TDC

Is watch your intake valve go down and then come up, then slowly turn until “ T” is in the viewing window or the piston is all they way at top of cylinder

Both rockers should be slightly loose if they’re not ,double check you are  on correct top dead center or you need to adjust the valves

Just to clarify what you said -there is no TDC with the piston at the bottom of the cylinder

In each cycle of the (fourstroke) engine the piston will come to the top twice -once during the compression stroke and once during the exhaust stroke

you want to make sure you’re on the compression stroke TDC when you checking to adjust your valves

It’s easy to accidentally adjust your valves on the exhaust stroke TDC

If you just look for the “T” in the viewing window after your intake valve closes (comes up) you’ll be good

If you can’t see the T on the fly wheel then just stick a straw or a screwdriver in spark plug hole and gently feel for the piston to come all the way to the top of the cylinder after that intake valve closes and you’ll be good and you can adjust your valves at that point

Edited by AKATV

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Okay, finally!

 

Valves are adjusted

Solenoid in

She starts and runs.. pretty well

 

No e-shift.  I've gotten to a point of testing as directed by @retro.  -I have 0 continuity from the ECU connector to the shifter.  I understood the instructions to then have me test continuity of the same cables in the shifter plug...0 continuity.

 

I also tested the voltage of the shift motor connector = 4v -should be min 4.7 per KB.. 

 

What do you think?  -all this, to learn the Amazon shift paddles/harness is bad?

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Yeah from your explanations it looks like the amazon/china shift switches assembly is no good. Before you replace it with an OEM Honda part, unplug the shift switches assembly and use a small jumper wire to test the ECU's operation of the shift motor by jumping the White/Blue and Black/Red wires in the 10p switches harness connector, with the ignition switch turned on. The shift motor should attempt an upshift into 1st gear. Then swap the jumper wire onto the White/Yellow and the Black/Red, the shift motor should attempt a downshift to neutral. If those tests are successful then a new, or a good used OEM switches assembly will fix your Rancher. Let us know how it goes....

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