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Bossdaddy

2001 Honda Foreman 450 ES, shifting problems

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Retro and Melatv, do you guys know of any more test we can run on this thing. Hey it is what it is, I'm so proud of the effort you gave and hung in there. You spent all this time trying to help a person you don't even know, that tells everyone what kind of people you are. It's up to y'all I'll leave it sitting there stripped down till y'all tell me to reassemble it. Just let me know when to start reassembly. Besides I've got another one that has shifting problems we can start on anytime. It's problem is nothing like this one. Thanks Guys!!

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I been reading ATV threads for a long time and this is by far the longest running , most involved I ever seen , they really gave it a lot of time and thought ------  I would guess it is something you over looked , seen that happen before  , and I say that because it seems they tried everything , so it must be something that was over looked  or not tested correctly  ----

 

You must be flipping these bikes , you had the best one Honda ever made and sold it and kept the ES  which along with the Hondamatic models are the worst ones they ever built 

 

Understand  about not saying how much the red  300 went for  , cause no matter what you say , there will be some say it was too much and some not enough 

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As I've stated more than once these guys did a heck of a job and I probably messed them up. I am not flipping these bikes. 

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If it is not an inconvenience Bossdaddy, I'd like to study a bit more, perhaps until Wednesday? You can start another thread on your other shifting issue anytime though.

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Still going over the wiring diagram as well -- Retro we need to have this bike to solve the problem.

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Still watching here!  No ES machines around, but I'm super curious to know who done it!

 

I'm still leaning towards a connector not making good contact.  In that situation, unplugging the connector and checking wires will give good readings, but plugging the connector back together isn't making a good connection.

 

 

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Hi Bossdaddy,

 

I spent a few hours reading this thread again last night and I still cannot figure out why we did not find the issue. Your work is excellent. Every circuit and every relevant part were tested more than once and each one tests out to be good, beyond all doubt. I still feel that the issue may be a minor one, but I just do not know how to test those circuits any better than we already have. I feel helpless at this point... I apologize for chewing through your valuable time then only providing you with failures in the end.

 

I still want to help. I just don't know what to do.

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Don't feel bad about me spending my time on this project. I was the one that asked for help and the help I got was tremendous. You and Melatv spent way more time on this thing than most would have and I really appreciate it. No failures here, I feel like I may have gained a friend or two, that can't be a failure. I'll start in a few days fabing up a manual shift and put this thing back together and ride on, Thanks again.

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30 minutes ago, Bossdaddy said:

Don't feel bad about me spending my time on this project. I was the one that asked for help and the help I got was tremendous. You and Melatv spent way more time on this thing than most would have and I really appreciate it. No failures here, I feel like I may have gained a friend or two, that can't be a failure. I'll start in a few days fabing up a manual shift and put this thing back together and ride on, Thanks again.

 

 

I have heard it many times , it is not a good idea to shift an ES with the manual shifter too much , the shaft is much smaller on the end and it will break , although I do have a friend that had an ES and he bought a foot shifter for his ES from a guy here in Louisiana that was making and selling them ,  but he never did put a lot of time on it before selling the ATV --- I think I would go for the by-pass harness , but then I think your problem is in the wiring harness after all that testing you'll done --- some swop shafts  and turn their ES into foot shift , but I hear ti is a little bit envolved -----  you can see the difference in the diameter of the end of the shafts end  #31 ES shaft compared to #18 FM in this pic 

 

image.png

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You have a great attitude. 😀

If you decide to put a manual shift lever on it remove the reduction gears from the ES so your shifts won't be turning the armature shaft of the shift motor.

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Fishfiles, I see what you are saying, something to think about. Retro, thanks I will remove them.

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19 hours ago, Fishfiles said:

 

 

I have heard it many times , it is not a good idea to shift an ES with the manual shifter too much , the shaft is much smaller on the end and it will break , although I do have a friend that had an ES and he bought a foot shifter for his ES from a guy here in Louisiana that was making and selling them ,  but he never did put a lot of time on it before selling the ATV --- I think I would go for the by-pass harness , but then I think your problem is in the wiring harness after all that testing you'll done --- some swop shafts  and turn their ES into foot shift , but I hear ti is a little bit envolved -----  you can see the difference in the diameter of the end of the shafts end  #31 ES shaft compared to #18 FM in this pic 

 

image.png

 

Yah but if you look at the part that actually engages #11 they are the same size there.  You just have a longer shaft that is supported by both the front cover, and then that thin part is also supported by the ES motor housing.

 

#16 is the same for both, and both #10 and #30 are sturdy.

 

What's different in the 450's is the actual transmission gears (looking at schematics).  I haven't torn one down to see the exact difference, but if I had to guess they designed the ES gears to shift easier, similar to the 05-08 500 1st gear, which only had 4 dogs, which makes shifting easier, but then doesn't hold up to hard shifting so they updated that gear on the newer 500's to 6 dogs instead of 4. 

 

If I had a 450ES it would get converted to footshift, but I certainly wouldn't be hammering on it and being rough on it.  I think if you didn't abuse it you would likely not have problems.

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At this time I think I will do as Retro said and remove the gear reduction gears and install a sturdy foot shifter. I will still be in my comfort zone doing that. When I start on the 2004 shifting problems I will be way out of my comfort zone.  

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4 minutes ago, Bossdaddy said:

At this time I think I will do as Retro said and remove the gear reduction gears and install a sturdy foot shifter. I will still be in my comfort zone doing that. When I start on the 2004 shifting problems I will be way out of my comfort zone.  

 

You need to pick up an extra engine, tear it down, and rebuild it.  That way you can tinker without having a machine down.

 

I did my first engine rebuild after buying an 06 500 that "needs a carb cleaning and a top end".  Of course, the crank and 1st gear were both shot, so I had to do a full rebuild.

 

It looks really intimidating, but now that we have the internet, @toodeep and a guy named Rich (Rich450ES on the old Foreman board) walked me through it.  That got me brave enough to tear into a bunch of them and while I occasionally have a hiccup, once you see how they're laid out and work, they aren't too bad to work on.

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been doing it for 29 yrs bossdady, if myself and jeep can do it ?, then surely you can !. heck, even bcs did it, with our help of coruse..lol. once you get a few under yer belt ?, its all down hill from there !.

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Oh, we are going to do it. The 2001 first then the 2004. Y'all get ready I'm going to need help.

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2 hours ago, shadetree said:

been doing it for 29 yrs bossdady, if myself and jeep can do it ?, then surely you can !. heck, even bcs did it, with our help of coruse..lol. once you get a few under yer belt ?, its all down hill from there !.

Yep boss, I was a virgin Honda engine person and with some help from retro and shadetree they helped me tear mine down, replace the parts that were bad, then assemble to make a fine running 450 again.  There were some hiccups along the way like all my trans parts falling on my garage floor, but that just made me work harder to figure things out.  Trust me, if you get the urge to give this a try you will have all the help you need.  Just look at the time retro and mel have taken to fix your ES.....

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If I ever get this 2001 put back together and out of my way I'm going to jump on the 2004. I believe I will get the help I will need. Man Retro and Mel are awesome. 

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This 2001 is the one that just keeps on giving. I got the manual shifter fabed up and installed, shifts good but now of all things it only shows R,N, 1 and 5 on the screen nothing for 2,3 or 4 even though it shifts. I'm sorry the screen for 2,3 and 4 shows - -.Is this normal?  Help!!

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yes that is normal while shifting manually. the gear position switch does not provide 2nd, 3rd, and 4th indication, just reverse, 1st and 5th. the es system determines that 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears are active by counting the es shifts.

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