2004 Honda Foreman 450 ES, shifting problems

[Bossdaddy 209]

Fishfiles, it never acted up with me but I didn't have it long before this happened. The bolt got beat up with the vice-grips I used to extract it. Wilson it came out no trouble. There was enough bolt sticking out that I could get the Pliers on it and it came on out, it did have thread locker on it , it was tight all the way out. My problem now is getting one here in a few days, nobody has it in stock so will be next week before I can get one.

[jeepwm69 7,600]

Well done getting it out.  Glad you found the problem

[Bossdaddy 209]

Thanks Jeep, just thankful that is the problem. 

[shadetree 5,880]

1 hour ago, Bossdaddy said:

Fishfiles, it never acted up with me but I didn't have it long before this happened. The bolt got beat up with the vice-grips I used to extract it. Wilson it came out no trouble. There was enough bolt sticking out that I could get the Pliers on it and it came on out, it did have thread locker on it , it was tight all the way out. My problem now is getting one here in a few days, nobody has it in stock so will be next week before I can get one.

if you are near a lowes or homedepot ?, they got metric bolts in stock..ya don't have to use a honda/japan bolt !..lol.

[Bossdaddy 209]

Thanks, I'll go get one.

[_Wilson_™ 6,563]

4 hours ago, Bossdaddy said:

The bolt got beat up with the vice-grips I used to extract it. Wilson it came out no trouble. There was enough bolt sticking out that I could get the Pliers on it and it came on out, it did have thread locker on it , it was tight all the way out

 

 glad you were able to extract it, i can't say I've ever come across a full thread bolt that twisted off below the surface, least not i can recall right off hand. 

[Bossdaddy 209]

You would think it took quite a bit of pressure from something to pop the head off like it did. I didn't get a chance to go and try to find a bolt this afternoon maybe tomorrow.

[Bossdaddy 209]

Shadetree, I went to Lowes and they do carry metric bolts, nuts and screws but they only had the 8.8 grade and not the 10.9 grade, they were out, so I was afraid the get the weaker bolt, still may be better than the Japanese made but I didn't want to take a chance after going this far, got one coming from Honda first part of next week. Thanks for the heads up I'll be using them for other things, I never thought to look at Lowes.

[Bossdaddy 209]

Does anybody use Valvoline ATV 10w40 oil in their 450's ?

[jeepwm69 7,600]

I've used in my my 500's.  Worked just fine.  I got a bunch of it at Walmarks on clearance for $1 a bottle.

[Bossdaddy 209]

Thanks Jeep, I've got so many to get ready for planting and hunting season I thought I might give it a try. I'm still waiting on parts for the 2004 repairs.

[bcsman 1,381]

Is there any made for Honda wet clutches oil that people have used that doesn't work?  If so it would be good to know..

[jeepwm69 7,600]

34 minutes ago, bcsman said:

Is there any made for Honda wet clutches oil that people have used that doesn't work?  If so it would be good to know..

 

I've used Mobil 4T, Rotella T4 and T6,, and the Valvoline ATV oil.  No issues with any of those.

[bcsman 1,381]

23 minutes ago, jeepwm69 said:

 

I've used Mobil 4T, Rotella T4 and T6,, and the Valvoline ATV oil.  No issues with any of those.

Yes have heard of quite a few brands used with no issues, obviously non wet clutch oils don't count...

[Bossdaddy 209]

Well I got the new bolt in and installed it, everything was looking good but when torqueing it at less than 12 ft lbs it broke. This time I wasn't as lucky as last time, it broke off just barely down in the shift drum. I started drilling it out and bit has veered off a little to one side and has turned into a mess. I don't know if I can got my pilot hole back in the middle or not. I think this baby may end up in the parts department. I don't have a parts department so maybe this will be a good start. I think I'll go give it another try, wish me luck. 

[bcsman 1,381]

Not sure what the torque value is for that bolt but sounds kinda strange unless the bolt was not designed for the job.  

[Bossdaddy 209]

I think it torques to 12 ft lbs, that does seem high and I may have gotten the torque wrong.

[bcsman 1,381]

1 minute ago, Bossdaddy said:

I think it torques to 12 ft lbs, that does seem high and I may have gotten the torque wrong.

Did the bolt go in with no problems until you torqued it?  I don't have the SM handy right now to look for the value....

[Bossdaddy 209]

The bolt went in over half way with my fingers then started to get snug, probably the old thread locker, in hind sight I should have chased the threads but it never crossed my mind. You can go back to page one of this thread and see the pictures/drawings retro sent me and the torque vales are on the last page showing the bolt. This bolt is nothing special they are all over this bike. If I can get it out it will be done differently the next time.

[Fishfiles 20,145]

Bummer , you should have not used a torque wrench , I think the torque wrench hurts a lot more people than it helps ------   It looks like that bolt was suppose to torque at 12NM ( Newton Meters ) accprding to  that page Retro linked which is about 8.85 ft lbs , most foot pound  torque wrenches don't even go lower than about 10-15 ft lbs on the scale -------  an inch pound torque wrench should have been used for that low a value , 8.85 ft lb x 12 inches  equals  106.2 inch pounds  or 12 NM  

[Bossdaddy 209]

Thanks Fishfiles, Like I said if I can get it out things will be different. I think I'm going to try and put the heat to the drum, I can barely get a hold of the bolt with needle nose plyers and if that don't work I am reluctant to weld on it but what have I got to lose. The drum is steel so it can go south real quick.

[retro 4,048]

An Easy-out bit might get that bolt out if it wasn't treated with Red Loctite when it broke off. If it was red loctited then drilling and tapping is your only option unless you can heat the bolt up to about 550 degrees F. and then an easy-out should get it.

 

When you put a new bolt in it just red loctite the threads and tighten the bolt up tight by hand. I never use a torque wrench on those they just gotta be tight.

[Bossdaddy 209]

The hole is not deep enough for a ease out to bite, maybe grind the ease out down, I don't know. I put blue thread lock on it not red.

Edited August 20, 2021 by Bossdaddy

[retro 4,048]

Or drill the bolt all the way through... will an easy-out bite on it then? Is the bolt close enough to the top of the threaded hole to weld a thick flat washer onto the end of the bolt shank?

[jeepwm69 7,600]

1 hour ago, Bossdaddy said:

, I can barely get a hold of the bolt with needle nose plyers

 

Can you cut a slot in the bolt with a dremel?  Use a flat head to back it out?