Bossdaddy 209 Posted August 10, 2021 (edited) My god don't say that. I'm scared to death just trying to get the front cover off. I'd probably use it for parts before I did that, lol. Edited August 10, 2021 by Bossdaddy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted August 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Bossdaddy said: My god don't say that. I'm scared to death just trying to get the front cover off. I'd probably use it for parts before I did that, lol. You can do it , I grinded the case of my 450 for gear reduction under the front cover with the engine still in the frame ----- it is just that I think you might be digging into it deeper than just the cover , I hope I am wrong ---- I think your going about it right for now , maybe it winds up being an easy fix 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bossdaddy 209 Posted August 10, 2021 If time permits I'll pull the cover today, all bolts are loose just haven't had time to go do it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bossdaddy 209 Posted August 10, 2021 Well the cover is off and here is what I found, Naturally the broken bolt is my biggest concern, I need to find a good drawing or picture of the area. Any help or advice will be appreciated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bossdaddy 209 Posted August 10, 2021 This drawing retro sent me shows the broken bolt, I'm pretty sure , I will check closer to be sure. It's the bolt at the bottom of the drawing, the only bolt in that section, labeled 16 N*m Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bossdaddy 209 Posted August 10, 2021 If that's it I will never get all that mess out the way to replace it and get it put back together. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bossdaddy 209 Posted August 10, 2021 (edited) Here is where the bolt is supposed to be, right under the long spring, I think. Edited August 10, 2021 by Bossdaddy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted August 10, 2021 How good are you with a drill , start small Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shadetree 5,853 Posted August 11, 2021 remove all the shifting parts that are over the end of the shift drum right there in the pics. center punch the rest of the broken bolt still in the end of the shift drum, start with a small drill bit, work your way up to, and as close as the inside of the threaded hole, then run a 6mm ( metric ) tap down the threads of the shift drum end, problem solved. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
retro 4,042 Posted August 11, 2021 You've got good guys on your team Bossdaddy. 😀 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bossdaddy 209 Posted August 11, 2021 I've got to go out of town today but will give it a shot tomorrow, Thanks guys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted August 11, 2021 If you have a DC welding machine , there are Chronatron Stud removing rod sold at the welding supply , these things are amazing , the flux on side the rods will not stick to the thread of a blind hole , you stick the rod right down the middle of the bolt hole , it will start building up chrome metal attached to the broken stud , when you get to the top of the hole , you place a hex nut over the hole , stick the rod thru the hole and continue to build metal till the nut is welded to the new stud ---- this is the process for removing broken head bolts ---- if you don't feel comfortable doing it or have the welding machine , then maybe there is a welding shop in your area that will do it for you 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slowindown 494 Posted August 11, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Fishfiles said: If you have a DC welding machine , there are Chronatron Stud removing rod sold at the welding supply , these things are amazing , the flux on side the rods will not stick to the thread of a blind hole , you stick the rod right down the middle of the bolt hole , it will start building up chrome metal attached to the broken stud , when you get to the top of the hole , you place a hex nut over the hole , stick the rod thru the hole and continue to build metal till the nut is welded to the new stud ---- this is the process for removing broken head bolts ---- if you don't feel comfortable doing it or have the welding machine , then maybe there is a welding shop in your area that will do it for you That's pretty cool. I looked those up - was unaware of them. I've welded nuts on broken bolts but not down a hole. I've had some luck with a left handed drill bit set I bought at harbor freight. Edited August 11, 2021 by slowindown 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,558 Posted August 11, 2021 I've never heard of those, I'll have to ask my black smith friend Steve Williamson..... he can do just about a thing with metal, but I've done the same lefted handed bits, welded nuts etc.. but never had a bolt twist off counter sunk, that i couldn't get out. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted August 11, 2021 Another old school trick , take copper pipe or copper tube as close to the OD side of the blind thread hole with the broken bolt in it , put the tube into the hole , put the MIG welding wire into the tube , pull the trigger and let the weld build up inside the tube till it extended out the hole then either weld a nut to it or grab it with pliers , the weld won't stick to the copper 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepwm69 7,582 Posted August 11, 2021 18 hours ago, shadetree said: remove all the shifting parts that are over the end of the shift drum right there in the pics. center punch the rest of the broken bolt still in the end of the shift drum, start with a small drill bit, work your way up to, and as close as the inside of the threaded hole, then run a 6mm ( metric ) tap down the threads of the shift drum end, problem solved. Or, use left handed drill bits, again like Shade said, starting small. A lot of the times the bit will catch the bolt and spin it out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted August 11, 2021 If they have Lock-Tite on the threads , you need to heat it up first , think it is 250 for blue and 400 for red , when you get it to temp it will puff a smoke signal , pufffff ----- it looks like that bolt was run loose for a little while , I say that cause there are marks on the gear shift plate , if so that might make it harder as the last thread might be bent over Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bossdaddy 209 Posted August 12, 2021 I think I should remove the centrifugal clutch and clutch pack before I start removing the shifting parts from the end of the shift drum. Do y'all agree? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted August 12, 2021 10 hours ago, Bossdaddy said: I think I should remove the centrifugal clutch and clutch pack before I start removing the shifting parts from the end of the shift drum. Do y'all agree? I don't have an ES other than parts bikes , so hard to say , more clearance is a good thing ------- but remember if you are drilling , it all has to be cleaned up after it is over , so the more you get out the way and tape or rag up , they less shavings will get into it ------ when I done my reductions , it took an extreme amount of grinding , a hand full of aluminum shavings ----- I used rags , masking paper and tape to not let it get into the engines ---- you won't be that extreme , but I would try and catch all the shavings 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bossdaddy 209 Posted August 12, 2021 I am a welder and I have welding machines but I think I will try everything before the welding begins. Thanks for all the info, very informative. If the engine was out and on a table it might be different. Thanks for all the input we will see what I got then figure out the direction to go, Thanks. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,558 Posted August 12, 2021 from the pic... i take it you extracted it ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted August 12, 2021 It must have came loose , it is beat up pretty good ---- was the shifting acting up any prior Share this post Link to post Share on other sites