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freebo86

Should there be oil in here?

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9 minutes ago, shadetree said:

i wanted to see the right side of the swing arm, so i could see if the swing arm bearings were double stacked or not ?.


Their not. Tapered bearings on both sides. Identical, Made in Japan. 

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27 minutes ago, freebo86 said:


Their not. Tapered bearings on both sides. Identical, Made in Japan. 

ok. well, something is not right with the swing arm gap, i have never seen that much gap on any atv i've built. maybe wrong swing arm, maybe frame spread apart ?, but something is not right with it !.

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32 minutes ago, shadetree said:

ok. well, something is not right with the swing arm gap, i have never seen that much gap on any atv i've built. maybe wrong swing arm, maybe frame spread apart ?, but something is not right with it !.


Well that sucks! Got a thing planned tmr going for a rip! Maybe the bike blows up.. guess I’ll take it off again the next day. It does bother me especially since I don’t know what it was prior to disassembly.. 

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Check to be sure there is not 2 cones in there or something else 

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I call my wife wishy-washy , cause she is a worry-wart and can't make up her mind !!!  Just saying !!! 

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12 minutes ago, Melatv said:

Check to be sure there is not 2 cones in there or something else 


Nah buddy Nothing else in thermo cleaned the bearing and cavities they sit in.. 

4 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

I call my wife wishy-washy , cause she is a worry-wart and can't make up her mind !!!  Just saying !!! 


Don’t understand cryptic bro,

 

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One thing I thought of.. as mentioned before as I loosen the right pivot bolt, the gap becomes smaller.  

 

Now, I used a 3/8s torque wrench to get that initial 7ft-lbs. Technically for something that low in torque I should be using a 1/4" torque wrench for precision so I am wondering may be I am overtorquing it and going past 7 ft-lbs which then is causing the larger gap without realizing as the torque wrench I'm using is not as precise as that low of a value?

 

Just some food for thought.

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Do you have a Torque Wrench that reads Inch lbs.    7x 12 = 84 " lbs

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8 minutes ago, Melatv said:

Do you have a Torque Wrench that reads Inch lbs.    7x 12 = 84 " lbs

 

No i do not, this one is in foot lbs that's why I'm thinking it may be off as its not intended for low torque requirements.

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I have not done mine yet however 84 inch pounds could be hand tight—not very much at all. 

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3 hours ago, freebo86 said:

One thing I thought of.. as mentioned before as I loosen the right pivot bolt, the gap becomes smaller.  

 

Now, I used a 3/8s torque wrench to get that initial 7ft-lbs. Technically for something that low in torque I should be using a 1/4" torque wrench for precision so I am wondering may be I am overtorquing it and going past 7 ft-lbs which then is causing the larger gap without realizing as the torque wrench I'm using is not as precise as that low of a value?

 

Just some food for thought.

try this, loosen the right side bolt, lock nut too, screw the center bolt in , snug it by hand a good ways, then tighten down the lock nut, see what gap you have ?, post a pic of it plz. i'm thinking you are correct ( if all parts in swing arm are right ? ) that you are over torqueing it.

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Well went for a rip last night, almost 90 miles and arm stayed in place. However it seems that rear shaft seal is still leaking even after replacement… 

 

Just checked the oil level with machine cold and it’s not at the same level it was yesterday cold. Undid the boot screw too push the boot back and there was fluid in there again.. I’m assuming this is oil but hard to tell. Like f***. 

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27 minutes ago, freebo86 said:

Well went for a rip last night, almost 90 miles and arm stayed in place. However it seems that rear shaft seal is still leaking even after replacement… 

 

Just checked the oil level with machine cold and it’s not at the same level it was yesterday cold. Undid the boot screw too push the boot back and there was fluid in there again.. I’m assuming this is oil but hard to tell. Like f***. 

its not gear oil from the rear diff is it ?.

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1 minute ago, shadetree said:

its not gear oil from the rear diff is it ?.


Nah it doesn’t have that gear oil smell at all

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Just now, freebo86 said:


Nah it doesn’t have that gear oil smell at all

then some how you messed up the new seal installing it ?, or maybe is was the wrong seal ?, do not know ?.

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1 minute ago, shadetree said:

then some how you messed up the new seal installing it ?, or maybe is was the wrong seal ?, do not know ?.


Not the first time installing seals.. 

OEM from dealer. 
cleaned the surface well beforehand, got the new seal and tapped it around evenly until seated.. 

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1 minute ago, freebo86 said:


Not the first time installing seals.. 

OEM from dealer. 
cleaned the surface well beforehand, got the new seal and tapped it around evenly until seated.. 

ok, did you clean all the old oil out before you installed swing arm ?.

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4 minutes ago, shadetree said:

ok, did you clean all the old oil out before you installed swing arm ?.


Of course! The boot was nice and clean inside. 

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16 minutes ago, freebo86 said:


Of course! The boot was nice and clean inside. 

hmm..well..its either leaking from same seal ?, or the rear diff pinion oil seal is bad ?.

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19 minutes ago, shadetree said:

hmm..well..its either leaking from same seal ?, or the rear diff pinion oil seal is bad ?.


well the oil level shouldnt be any different on the dipstick.

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Could be a slightly bent output shaft, or the shaft could be worn where the old seal contacted the shaft.  Neither are good.  Both require replacing the output shaft.

 

Not sure what that entails on a 450.

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Could be a bad bearing on the final shaft too -----   I have changed that seal before , and it is very thin steel , you really should use a seal driver on it as it is easy to  bend it when knocking it in , maybe it got bent on installation , but since it leaked before , i doubt that ------  maybe it is not leaking at all no more and the other tubes of the swing arm are full of oil from the previous and it transfer over ---- I know when I do a swing arm bearing job , I glue the tin bearing  plates in with 3M5200 cause I have seen pin holes in the welds of the swing arm tubes on the opposite side as the drive shaft before   

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1 hour ago, Fishfiles said:

Could be a bad bearing on the final shaft too -----   I have changed that seal before , and it is very thin steel , you really should use a seal driver on it as it is easy to  bend it when knocking it in , maybe it got bent on installation , but since it leaked before , i doubt that ------  maybe it is not leaking at all no more and the other tubes of the swing arm are full of oil from the previous and it transfer over ---- I know when I do a swing arm bearing job , I glue the tin bearing  plates in with 3M5200 cause I have seen pin holes in the welds of the swing arm tubes on the opposite side as the drive shaft before   

that's why i asked him if he cleaned all the old oil all out of the swing arm ?, in case it was from the first oil seal leak.

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2 hours ago, jeepwm69 said:

Could be a slightly bent output shaft, or the shaft could be worn where the old seal contacted the shaft.  Neither are good.  Both require replacing the output shaft.

 

Not sure what that entails on a 450.

motor has to be split to replace the shaft if my memory is worth a crap these days ?..lol. although, something in my brain tells me the rear cover can be removed, and that shaft pulled out from the back ?..i do not recall this.

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This may break the camels back. 
 

Topped it off with oil. Pulled boot back some and cleaned in by the seal. I raised the bike to tilt it back (so oil is pushing against the seal) and I’ll check it tomorrow morning see if I feel oil seeping. Don’t feel like pulling the whole swing arm to check this. If it’s leaking, I’ll see if the dealer will replace it with a new seal (even though not their fault..) if not I may just keep adding oil.. 

 

And then a for sale ad.

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