Should there be oil in here?

[shadetree 5,882]

12 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

You can do it , if it was easy then everyone would be an atv mechanic --- set it on a bigger piece of wood then that 2x6 that you got on top that jack  so it is more stable and use some blocks to get the angle right , then a ratchet strap to hold it all steady -------   see how big the plywood is on top the jack , the blocks and the ratchet strap holding it steady , turn the hub to make the u-joint line up 

 

 

yep, do this freebo86 ^^ .

[freebo86 291]

I don’t think we’re understanding each other hear/ what ujoint are we referring to? The one by the output shaft? If so, that’s not the issue. 
 

My problem is the rear driveshaft at the rear diff end. I think the rear shaft pulled OUT OF the diff. 

 

I can make the front portion mate up.. 

[Fishfiles 20,145]

Mmmm, you can get the drive shaft to line back up  with  out separating the rear end from the swing arm ---- I think I would take it apart at this point to make sure no funk goes into the pinion bearing and diff ------ how clean was the inside the swing arm tube ?? 

 

[toodeep 1,758]

Stand it up vertical. You'll have a better chance of dropping it in the center than trying to fight gravity when installing it. A few tries, a few cuss words and your done.

[shadetree 5,882]

1 hour ago, freebo86 said:

I don’t think we’re understanding each other hear/ what ujoint are we referring to? The one by the output shaft? If so, that’s not the issue. 
 

My problem is the rear driveshaft at the rear diff end. I think the rear shaft pulled OUT OF the diff. 

 

I can make the front portion mate up.. 

lets try this again, cept this time, take the drive shaft, install it first into the output shaft, slide the whole swing arm over the drive shaft, when you get to where the back end of the drive shaft goes into the rear diff, some how level off the axle tube from the middle to the frame above, now stab the swing arm bolts back through the frame, start on left rear side, then start the right rear side, have the lock nut backed out a good ways, enough to get the center bolt started, once this is done, level the back end of the swing arm as close to level as you can, as well as get the boot back over the large end right there on the swing arm, leave the bands off for right now, just get the boot on both ends.once this is done, at the rear diff, spin the axle with a hub on either side, the drive shaft end there '' should '' pop right in, and onto the pinion gear end, don't forget that large o-ring that goes in the diff groove before you put the nuts back on. other than this ?, you are making it sound very hard, when its really not. oh...once swing arm is half way level ?, install the rear shock, this helps hold it up !.

[freebo86 291]

Got it on! The tube was clean once I took it apart. 
 

Swingarm is mounted. Is the gap on the right side normal? I never checked when I pulled this off.

both pivots are to spec on torque. Left is 83ft. Right I did to 7ft lbs. then I put the lock nut on and went to 83ft lbs for it. I took a old socket and cut grooves into it for the lock nut. 

 

[shadetree 5,882]

4 hours ago, freebo86 said:

Got it on! The tube was clean once I took it apart. 
 

Swingarm is mounted. Is the gap on the right side normal? I never checked when I pulled this off.

both pivots are to spec on torque. Left is 83ft. Right I did to 7ft lbs. then I put the lock nut on and went to 83ft lbs for it. I took a old socket and cut grooves into it for the lock nut. 

good deal !. its been a min sense i last installed swing arm bolts and bearings in a trx300, or any model for that matter !. looking at you're pics ^^ , it almost tells me you should have tightened down on the right side swing arm bolt some more ?, i do not like that much gap from what i see in the pic ^^. try snugging down a tad harder on the ride side swing arm bolt, see if you can bring that gap in a tad closer.

[Fishfiles 20,145]

Freebo , that gap seems excessive , make me think either the shoulder of the swing arm bolt did not properly align with the bearing and pushed over or the frame is tweaked 

[Fishfiles 20,145]

 

 

Did you clean the threads and try threading that pivot bolt all the way into the threads of the frame before assembling it  , the torque values are so low , if there is any nick or dirt on the threads it could have caused a problem 

 

Swing arm torque :

35 inch pounds 1998-2001 = approx.  3 foot pounds 

88 inch pounds 2002-2004 =  approx. 7 foot pounds 

[freebo86 291]

I did clean the threads out on both side. 
 

I’ll undo this bolt and check the threads again. I can keep deff tightening it.. but it’s the low torque value that’s just making me stop…

[Fishfiles 20,145]

2 minutes ago, freebo86 said:

I did clean the threads out on both side. 
 

I’ll undo this bolt and check the threads again. I can keep deff tightening it.. but it’s the low torque value that’s just making me stop…

 

Ok , so you did clean the threads out both side . 

But did you actually screw the pivot bolts into the frame all the way in  without the swing arm to verify they screwed easily in ??  

 

I might also check the fit of the pivot bolt into the bearing , maybe there a nick or dent not allowing it to go into the bearing , maybe it was a misalignment problem when you were installed the swing arm  

[freebo86 291]

15 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

 

Ok , so you did clean the threads out both side . 

But did you actually screw the pivot bolts into the frame all the way in  without the swing arm to verify they screwed easily in ??  

 

I might also check the fit of the pivot bolt into the bearing , maybe there a nick or dent not allowing it to go into the bearing , maybe it was a misalignment problem when you were installed the swing arm  

Actually, I cleaned the threads to the point I was able to fully thread in the pivot bolts by hand all the way through the hole before I installed the swingarm back on - that’s how clean the threads were. 
 

I think it’s aligned, because again, I was able to start threading that pivot bolt in with ease even with the swingarm in place so it was all aligned. 

[Fishfiles 20,145]

There was a 70s song comes to mind for this situation , "If it don't fit , don't force it , just relax and let it flow " ----

 

Maybe the shoulder of the pivot bolt is hanging up on the I.D. of the bearing , did you try and to slide the pivot bolt into the bearing with out the swing arm 

[toodeep 1,758]

That gap can be normal on some machines. If you tightened the left side first and then the right I wouldn't worry about it much. Ride it some and double check the torque but it's more than likely good. This is a 400/450 Foreman? If so check the frame for any crack marks as that's pretty common (in my area) and can cause the frame to spread more than normal.

[freebo86 291]

3 hours ago, Fishfiles said:

There was a 70s song comes to mind for this situation , "If it don't fit , don't force it , just relax and let it flow " ----

 

Maybe the shoulder of the pivot bolt is hanging up on the I.D. of the bearing , did you try and to slide the pivot bolt into the bearing with out the swing arm 

 

No I did not try sliding it into the bearing without swingarm.

 

I'll undo that side tonight and check if its aligned properly and check again. I did cycle the swingarm up and down, bike is on its tired again and all moves freely.  I'll stop by the local Honda dealer today and look at a few of their machines that are outside.

 

From reading online it seems that this gap is normal and quite common..

Edited July 15, 2021 by freebo86

[freebo86 291]

1 minute ago, toodeep said:

That gap can be normal on some machines. If you tightened the left side first and then the right I wouldn't worry about it much. Ride it some and double check the torque but it's more than likely good. This is a 400/450 Foreman? If so check the frame for any crack marks as that's pretty common (in my area) and can cause the frame to spread more than normal.

 

yes its a 04-450.

 

Where are the potential crack marks?

[toodeep 1,758]

1 minute ago, freebo86 said:

 

yes its a 04-450.

 

Where are the potential crack marks?

 

Most of the time the lower cross brace close to where the swingarm bolts on and the cross braces on the upper frame rails. I've had quite a few of them with a gap like that with no visible frame damage and they are still in service today getting worked hard. I think the old frames just flexed over time.

[freebo86 291]

So I checked the side again. Basically no cracks or anything is noticed.

 

Now, as I unthread that pivot bolt the gap becomes smaller as the swing arm is pulled in towards frame. So what’s going on is as I tighten it the pivot bolt is pushing the swing arm to the left and creating the large gap.. 

 

Pivot is aligned with bearing and the correct pivot for the right side. 

[toodeep 1,758]

Sounds like the frame is getting a little weak, there isn't a lot of bracing in that area on the 450.  You could weld a cross brace or strap in (close as possible to the pivot bolt area) once you get everything where it should be to beef it up. It might go years the way it is but eventually the frame will probably start to crack out from stress. 

[shadetree 5,882]

4 hours ago, freebo86 said:

So I checked the side again. Basically no cracks or anything is noticed.

 

Now, as I unthread that pivot bolt the gap becomes smaller as the swing arm is pulled in towards frame. So what’s going on is as I tighten it the pivot bolt is pushing the swing arm to the left and creating the large gap.. 

 

Pivot is aligned with bearing and the correct pivot for the right side. 

make sure the end of the bolt is going into the swing arm bearing ?!., if its not ?, it will push the frame out.

[freebo86 291]

12 hours ago, toodeep said:

Sounds like the frame is getting a little weak, there isn't a lot of bracing in that area on the 450.  You could weld a cross brace or strap in (close as possible to the pivot bolt area) once you get everything where it should be to beef it up. It might go years the way it is but eventually the frame will probably start to crack out from stress. 

Ohhh… well It’s the swingarm that slides over and takes up the gap if I loosen the pivot bolt. The frame don’t appear to be moving. 
 

stopped by the dealer even some of their used machine outside look like this and I spoke with a mechanic who said it’s normal.. 

 

it’s going to stay this way. I checked the swingarm no side play at all so it’s staying. I marked the hex bolt prior to torquing the lock nut to make sure it didn’t move, and it didn’t. 
 

 

 

[freebo86 291]

8 hours ago, shadetree said:

make sure the end of the bolt is going into the swing arm bearing ?!., if its not ?, it will push the frame out.

This makes sense, but no way would I be able to thread the pivot bolt in by head easily and get it to spread the frame.. I get it in there hand tight with my fingers before I apply the 7ft lbs 

[Fishfiles 20,145]

I just went outside and took pics of swing arms on both my 450s  , it is overcast today so you can see the gaps , cause there are not any gaps , Wonder what happens ???   Frame spreads out ???  Lord ,  knows mine have been ragged hard , maybe they are bowed in  !!!! 

 

[jeepwm69 7,601]

Gap has been different on all of mine, regardless of model.  Some are wide, some there is hardly any gap at all.

 

I was concerned the first time I saw a gap, but that was close to 10 years ago and that one hasn't given me any problems, so I'd run it Freebo!

 

[shadetree 5,882]

here is the gap on my '03 trx450fm.