1992 350D Starting problems

[TrxPipUK 169]

1 hour ago, shadetree said:

if the cam chain is stretched ?, then YES, you will need to remove the right side cover in order to replace the cam chain, which means..removing lots of parts to change the chain out...lol.

Oh no lol. That's not what I wanted to hear hahah 😂. If it comes to that I guess it'll have to be done. Fingers crossed though 

[toodeep 1,758]

3 hours ago, TrxPipUK said:

Hey Goober. Yeah I hear the pump buzzing and there is fuel coming out the overflow as I've tried starting her a few times lol. How do I check if a valve is stuck open?

Fuel coming out the overflow tells me something is wrong inside of that carb. Is the fuel bowl full before it overflows or does it do it right away? 

[Goober 1,555]

Pip

you have to get to the valve covers, so you have to pull the air cleaner box.

 

heres a pic of the valves—intake set to the inboard, exhaust outboard to front of quad.

 

Take off the generator inspection and flywheel covers as you rotate that flywheel through two revolutions you'll see the valves open and close. 
Don’t rotate backwards!!!

Edited December 17, 2019 by Goober

[Goober 1,555]

Hit it with the starting fluid first then Do your compression test. If you don’t have or can’t get a tester then you can strip it down to check the valves—you need to set them anyway which could also be your problem.

 

read your service manual about the engine firing sequence. There are two times the piston will be at Top Dead Center, but only at 1 instance will it be the compression (firing) stroke. You set the valves when the piston is at TDC firing because both sets of valves will be closed. At that point the valve rockers will leave a gap you can measure 

 

i read my service manual quite a bit—i have three printed copies. One in shop, one in the den and one at work.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Goober

[TrxPipUK 169]

1 hour ago, toodeep said:

Fuel coming out the overflow tells me something is wrong inside of that carb. Is the fuel bowl full before it overflows or does it do it right away? 

Yeah I presume it's full, it doesn't happen straight away and there's only a few drops out the overflow. Not taken the bowl off to check though. 

[TrxPipUK 169]

1 hour ago, Goober said:

Pip

you have to get to the valve covers, so you have to pull the air cleaner box.

 

heres a pic of the valves—intake set to the inboard, exhaust outboard to front of quad.

 

Take off the generator inspection and flywheel covers as you rotate that flywheel through two revolutions you'll see the valves open and close. 
Don’t rotate backwards!!!

Thanks that's good to know about. Which way is backwards? Lol. Is that when turning the flywheel by the nut?

[TrxPipUK 169]

48 minutes ago, Goober said:

Hit it with the starting fluid first then Do your compression test. If you don’t have or can’t get a tester then you can strip it down to check the valves—you need to set them anyway which could also be your problem.

 

read your service manual about the engine firing sequence. There are two times the piston will be at Top Dead Center, but only at 1 instance will it be the compression (firing) stroke. You set the valves when the piston is at TDC firing because both sets of valves will be closed. At that point the valve rockers will leave a gap you can measure 

 

i read my service manual quite a bit—i have three printed copies. One in shop, one in the den and one at work.

I'm going to get a compression tester and try the starting fluid. Any idea if brake cleaner would work as a starting fluid lol?

I'll read up on the engine in the manual and learn some stuff haha. Printing a few copies out sounds like a good idea, instead of just having it digital. 

Thanks Goober!

[shadetree 5,864]

1 hour ago, Goober said:

Pip

you have to get to the valve covers, so you have to pull the air cleaner box.

 

heres a pic of the valves—intake set to the inboard, exhaust outboard to front of quad.

 

Take off the generator inspection and flywheel covers as you rotate that flywheel through two revolutions you'll see the valves open and close. 
Don’t rotate backwards!!!

someone please explain to me why in the world your not suppose to rotate these, or any atv motor for that matter ?!...backwards ????, i've done it all my 28 years, and i've yet to run into any problems !, soooooooo..someone tell me why you can not, or should not rotate these motors backwards ?, i'm not talking about  full 360 backwards, i'm talking about enough to see intake valves move, which is about 180 ( give or take ? ).

[shadetree 5,864]

22 minutes ago, TrxPipUK said:

I'm going to get a compression tester and try the starting fluid. Any idea if brake cleaner would work as a starting fluid lol?

I'll read up on the engine in the manual and learn some stuff haha. Printing a few copies out sounds like a good idea, instead of just having it digital. 

Thanks Goober!

I have never used brake cleaner ?? cant say ??, starting fluid or carb cleaner, but starting fluid ( short burst ! )..works best !.

[toodeep 1,758]

You can rotate them backwards but you have the resistance of the starter is all. If your watching the valves open they will be in the wrong order going backwards. Some brake fluids are flammable and others aren't, if your well regulated over there I would say it's not.

[retro 4,048]

6 hours ago, TrxPipUK said:

Yeah I hear the pump buzzing and there is fuel coming out the overflow as I've tried starting her a few times lol.

 

It sounds like fuel is coming out of the float bowl overflow hoses? If so fuel is flooding the motor so ya gotta fix that before you can expect the motor to fire.

[Goober 1,555]

I was told not to rotate an engine backwards but i didn’t question or think about it 

 

i see from this service manual there’s no warning against it. Pip, page 3-5 gives instructions on setting valves.

 

Here’s a pic of the naked flywheel—you’re not going to pull this cover but this shows you the bolt you’re going to rotate with and where the marks are.

[shadetree 5,864]

1 hour ago, toodeep said:

You can rotate them backwards but you have the resistance of the starter is all. If your watching the valves open they will be in the wrong order going backwards. Some brake fluids are flammable and others aren't, if your well regulated over there I would say it's not.

if you have the piston on top dead center, compression stroke, and go backwards a tad, my intake valves always start to open, least thats the way they work for me. this is how/when I then adjust my valves. i'm sure its not the same if you had the piston on the exhaust stroke though !.

[Goober 1,555]

check your kill switch set to RUN

 

After cranking Do you smell fuel  @TrxPipUK in the spark plug hole or exhaust? Anywhere?

 

 

[TrxPipUK 169]

2 hours ago, retro said:

 

It sounds like fuel is coming out of the float bowl overflow hoses? If so fuel is flooding the motor so ya gotta fix that before you can expect the motor to fire.

Yeah fuel did start to come out the overflow hose after about 5 or 6 attempts, not loads and loads though only some drips. Each attempt it was turning over for about 15 seconds. 

How would I go about stopping it from flooding?

[TrxPipUK 169]

1 hour ago, Goober said:

check your kill switch set to RUN

 

After cranking Do you smell fuel  @TrxPipUK in the spark plug hole or exhaust? Anywhere?

 

 

Kill switch is set to RUN.

 

No smell of petrol from the exhaust, but if you put your hand over the end you can feel quite a powerful blast of air every time it turns over. Not sure about a smell of fuel in the spark plug hole. Should I check if the spark plug is wet with fuel after trying to start it? There is a smell of fuel in the carb though. 

[TrxPipUK 169]

Not sure if this is anything? This is a video of when I took the the plastic pipe (that joins the carb and the air filter) off. It's kind of hard to see but it shows the carb spurting a fine mist of fuel out. 

 

Still need to have a try with starting fluid, didn't manage to get any today *facepalm* lol

Here's the video 

 

[shadetree 5,864]

5 hours ago, TrxPipUK said:

Kill switch is set to RUN.

 

No smell of petrol from the exhaust, but if you put your hand over the end you can feel quite a powerful blast of air every time it turns over. Not sure about a smell of fuel in the spark plug hole. Should I check if the spark plug is wet with fuel after trying to start it? There is a smell of fuel in the carb though. 

fuel coming OUT of the carb body tells me its out of time, most likely from a stretched cam chain ?, or stuck or bent valve ?.

[shadetree 5,864]

try putting your hand over the back of the carb , like cupping it kinda tight, crank it over, do you feel it trying to suck your hand in ?, if not ?, then its a timing issue ?, or valve issue ?. either one of these will cause what you have going on.

[retro 4,048]

5 hours ago, TrxPipUK said:

Yeah fuel did start to come out the overflow hose after about 5 or 6 attempts, not loads and loads though only some drips. Each attempt it was turning over for about 15 seconds. 

How would I go about stopping it from flooding?

 

The float valve nay be stuck, possibly dirty, or if you have put a kit in the carb the valve may not fit or may be china junk.

[TrxPipUK 169]

6 hours ago, retro said:

 

The float valve nay be stuck, possibly dirty, or if you have put a kit in the carb the valve may not fit or may be china junk.

If the float valve is stuck what would I need to do? 

I did put a kit in the carb but it was shindy so that should be fine right?

[TrxPipUK 169]

7 hours ago, shadetree said:

try putting your hand over the back of the carb , like cupping it kinda tight, crank it over, do you feel it trying to suck your hand in ?, if not ?, then its a timing issue ?, or valve issue ?. either one of these will cause what you have going on.

I'll try that out, thanks shade

[retro 4,048]

19 minutes ago, TrxPipUK said:

If the float valve is stuck what would I need to do? 

I did put a kit in the carb but it was shindy so that should be fine right?

 

Yeah, Shindy carb kits are good parts. You may need to polish some corrosion buildup off from the brass float valve seat to cure the leaky valve though. You can use cotton Q-tips wetted with a mild polishing compound to shine up that valve seat.

[shadetree 5,864]

On 12/16/2019 at 2:51 PM, TrxPipUK said:

Hello there, 

So after the last few years of slowly rebuilding my old 350D, I'm at the stage of starting her up. Just so you know, the engine wasn't touched during the build as it supposedly ran previous. Pretty sure she should run though. It turns over nicely and feels like it has good compression (not tested though). 

 

Here's some details: I have spark and I have fuel getting to the carb (carb has been cleaned, but I'm not sure if it's set up properly). The only thing that I can think of that would stop it starting is the carb??🤔 Is there anything else I can check that might not be working even though I have spark? 

Thanks my dudes 🙂

I am quoting this ^^^, because I wanted to take everyone back to where it alllllllllllllll started !!!. so, before anyone else jumps in here, and tosses info ?, lets take a step back, and try to get to the bottom of this. first: is there an oem fuel pump on this atv ?, second: you say you started this build some time ago, was it ever running when you first purchased it ?. third: why did you assume it may not have enough compression way back to this point, but yet not test it then ?. I am NOT being a smart "" you know what '' here bro ?, but too many simple steps has been over looked, not done before you brought this to our forums !. do you even have a service manual for this atv ?. I highly recommend you read through it, every page !!!. some easy to do steps has been given to you here, please go through them before you start pulling your hair out !!!..lol.

[TrxPipUK 169]

9 hours ago, shadetree said:

I am quoting this ^^^, because I wanted to take everyone back to where it alllllllllllllll started !!!. so, before anyone else jumps in here, and tosses info ?, lets take a step back, and try to get to the bottom of this. first: is there an oem fuel pump on this atv ?, second: you say you started this build some time ago, was it ever running when you first purchased it ?. third: why did you assume it may not have enough compression way back to this point, but yet not test it then ?. I am NOT being a smart "" you know what '' here bro ?, but too many simple steps has been over looked, not done before you brought this to our forums !. do you even have a service manual for this atv ?. I highly recommend you read through it, every page !!!. some easy to do steps has been given to you here, please go through them before you start pulling your hair out !!!..lol.

First: No there isn't an oem fuel pump on it, it has an Edelbrock Universal Micro Electric Fuel Pump on. I know you will jump at this and say get rid of it immediately lol, but I've seen lots of people use these on Facebook and other sites. It's not a Chinese pump which is a bonus aha. I would have loved to get an oem but they are around £150 new (the edelbrock was £50) and I don't have that much to spend unfortunately. 

 

Second: No the quad wasn't running when I bought it. It had no carb, no fuel pump, dodgy electrics and many other issues. The guy said it did run before he left it in the shed and took parts off it. Don't know how true that is though lol.

 

Third: Not sure where I said I don't think it has good compression? (Don't mean to be rude there) I do think it has enough compression. I am going to test it as well. You have to put a fair amount of body weight into kicking it over lol. 

 

Yes I do have the service manual, it was one of the first things I got when I brought the old girl home haha. I have read a fair amount of it but not all yet. 

I have been pretty busy with other things popping up in life since I started this thread, so I haven't managed to get into the workshop to try out all the things everyone has suggested. 

Really appreciate all the help and advice everyone of you have given. Really helps. 

Thanks for going back through the simple stuff shade. I'll go through all the easy stuff when I get a bit of time before I start pulling my hair out lol.

 

Cheers 

Edited December 18, 2019 by TrxPipUK