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Outdooreagle

1999 Honda fourtrax300fw no fire

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LOLs np @_Wilson_™ 

 

so @Outdooreagleis trying to get a 99 TRX300FW fired.  Various parts replaced. I hear signal going in to the new CDI but not coming out. so i gather pulse generator signal getting to CDI? thot it would help to have a good pic of an OEM CDI. FF posted of a new one i guess the design has changed so maybe pic not needed.
 

i don’t have a schematic for this one. 

 

 


 

 

 

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His CDI appears to be a Ricks and the price kind of reflects that. Are you testing the black/yellow wire at the coil only? If so did you ohm that wire from the cdi connector to the coil?

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Hi @toodeep. I have ohm the black yellow wire in cdi side of connector to the end of the black yellow where it terminates in a he coil. It is good. I’ve been using an analog meter to watch the ac pulses as my digital meter won’t register the pulses from the pickup coil. The analog picks up the ac pulses in the blue yellow wire going into the cdi, but on pulses in the black yellow wire leaving the cdi. Does that cdi have a resistor or resistors that change the voltage pulses, or would you too agree with others that the cdi is faulty? Thanks 

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15 minutes ago, Outdooreagle said:

Hi @toodeep. I have ohm the black yellow wire in cdi side of connector to the end of the black yellow where it terminates in a he coil. It is good. I’ve been using an analog meter to watch the ac pulses as my digital meter won’t register the pulses from the pickup coil. The analog picks up the ac pulses in the blue yellow wire going into the cdi, but on pulses in the black yellow wire leaving the cdi. Does that cdi have a resistor or resistors that change the voltage pulses, or would you too agree with others that the cdi is faulty? Thanks 

You still have your old CDI? Sometimes they build up humidity and it affects circuit performance. consider drying it out in an oven at 200F (no higher) for at least three hours. Let completely cool before reinstalling. 
 

your new coil a resistor type coil (is it OEM)? 
 

Do you have the old coil? I would try it.

Check your old cable for corrosion where it’s fitted on the spark plug connector. I had firing problems on my current project and cut off half inch of the cable—really badly corroded. After that it fired fine.

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I have all the old parts. Not sure if new parts are oem or not. Apparently the cdi is not. A lot of new parts were purchased before the previous owner gave up on his efforts and gave me the “ project@. Lol. I’ll try to dry out the old cdi tomorrow. Thanks 

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I will have to read the manual to help farther and know what readings are supposed to be. Rick's makes a pretty solid product but anything can happen. When I get the shop tomorrow I can see what the readings should be (forgot my memory stick with my manuals on it there) and get back to you. If everything does point to the cdi you can call Rick's, he will walk you through some testing and then fix you up. 

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14 minutes ago, Outdooreagle said:

I have all the old parts. Not sure if new parts are oem or not. Apparently the cdi is not. A lot of new parts were purchased before the previous owner gave up on his efforts and gave me the “ project@. Lol. I’ll try to dry out the old cdi tomorrow. Thanks 

Excellent; yup don’t give up on it yet.

you have a service manual right? And a multimeter i saw. great diagnostic flowcharts in there. 
gotta make sure that plug is correct spec according to manual and sometimes those plugs crack/fail. 
Ohms check the coil primary and secondary and then pull the cap and check those parameters too. If that wire end is corroded, then snip it off. Sometimes that cap end gets rusty too.

 

Clean every connector using contact cleaner and a plumbers flux brush. Use a light film of permatex dielectric grease on every connector you open and apply using a separate plumbers flux brush.
 

Edited by Goober
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I do it for a living so the newer models are fresh to me and the older models I have to think about and refresh myself. Electrical issues are one of the hardest things to do online as there are so many variables that can play into the readings and tests. The 300s are pretty simple machines so once things get narrowed down we should be able to suggest a possible problem area.

 

I've been using the Ricks CDIs since the mid 90's as an alternative to OEM. I have had good luck with them.

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25 minutes ago, Outdooreagle said:

Do you guys work on these things for a living, or just very familiar with them? Lots of great advice. 

Thanks no i first laid my hands on an ATV in 2012 or so; I maintain several at work (facility mgmt) and have a few. Became associated with several of these fine folks about 5 years ago—I’m still a little green—but i learn from folks and try to pass on as well. It took me awhile to be able to give any worthwhile advice, so if it’s helping you then you’re very welcome 

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I've messed with them for years, and toodeep is correct electrical issues are the worst.... These fellas will get you fixed up. One thing ... I've learned ... You never back the electrical system NEVER! Unless you know exactly what your doing.

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10 hours ago, Outdooreagle said:

Do you guys work on these things for a living, or just very familiar with them? Lots of great advice. 

i've had my hand in them for 28 years, I consider myself pretty decent with them. we have some smart members here. for the record towards you, wasn't trying to be hard on you !, I just don't like it when ppl dont listen to directions..lol. we'll get you going one way or another :-).

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13 hours ago, Outdooreagle said:

Do you guys work on these things for a living, or just very familiar with them? Lots of great advice. 

Thanks @shadetree. Please don’t think I wasn’t listening to directions. I’m just wanting to be as thorough as possible and hopefully get the trouble narrowed down to a part or two so that I’m not wasting more money buying unnecessary parts. I hope you agree with my thoughts on that. Thanks for all your advice as well. 

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1 hour ago, Outdooreagle said:

Thanks @shadetree. Please don’t think I wasn’t listening to directions. I’m just wanting to be as thorough as possible and hopefully get the trouble narrowed down to a part or two so that I’m not wasting more money buying unnecessary parts. I hope you agree with my thoughts on that. Thanks for all your advice as well. 

not a problem bro. when I see what looks like china parts ?, this makes me tell folks, buy oem..spec when it comes to high dollar parts that are deff needed to make them run !. like I said, your in great hands here, we wont lead you down the wrong path..this is for sure ! :-).

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Ok gentlemen. I talked with Russell today at Ricks, and he told me how to test going into cdi, to rule some more this out. He said to ohm out the brown/ yellow and then blue/ red. He said should be open line ( no continuity). He said if any ground present, it will not fire. After testing, the blue/red wire has a hard ground and according to the wiring diagram, it terminates at the thermo sensor, which is behind right side motor cover. Questions:

1. What does the thermo sensor do?

2. Can it be bypassed?

3. Will bad sensor stop fire?

4.  How difficult is it to change?

 Thanks everyone. 

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12 minutes ago, Outdooreagle said:

Ok gentlemen. I talked with Russell today at Ricks, and he told me how to test going into cdi, to rule some more this out. He said to ohm out the brown/ yellow and then blue/ red. He said should be open line ( no continuity). He said if any ground present, it will not fire. After testing, the blue/red wire has a hard ground and according to the wiring diagram, it terminates at the thermo sensor, which is behind right side motor cover. Questions:

1. What does the thermo sensor do?

2. Can it be bypassed?

3. Will bad sensor stop fire?

4.  How difficult is it to change?

 Thanks everyone. 

i'm guessing you mean the oil temp sensor ?, this is always grounded, when the oil temp gets too hot, its suppose to tell the c.d.i. to shut down, least thats how they used to be years ago ?. can you bypass it ?..why would you ???, this is a safety feature, its suppose to shut the engine down in a over heat. is it hard to change ?, no. its best to tilt the atv over on the left side, about 45 degree's, pull the oil temp sensor wire off the switch, unscrew it, should be 17mm thin wall socket will get it out.

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Here's the pic...... This is the oem factory CDI ..... This what she should look like..... It's not the best pic... But you get the idea...

image.jpg

Edited by _Wilson_™

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I called it thermo sensor bc diagram called it that. You’ll have to over look my VERY LIMITED knowledge. Lol the guy at ricks said it the wire is grounded, it kills the fire. I think this is actually a Ricks type cdi. With your knowledge and understanding, would you change this first or not. 

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Just now, Outdooreagle said:

I do see it grounded in diagram, but should I see a ground with multimeter on the wire itself?

yes, you will. and yes..its called oil temp sensor, but the book is correct, but us old timers, we call it the oil temp sensor switch :-).

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before you buy the correct oem c.d.i. !!!, unplug the wire from the oil temp sensor, ground it to the engine somewhere ?, then try cranking it over, and see if you get spark ?, if you do ?, then the sensor is bad, will need to be replaced. if you do not get spark when grounding the oil temp sensor wire to engine, then this tells me the c.d.i. is bad, and you will need an oem c.d.i. from partzilla or rocky mountain atv.

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Hi: Are you sure about brown/yellow on the CDI -- I can find it -- to test the thermo -- at 77F degrees the resistance should 10,000 ohms you can test this from the CDI Blue/red wire to ground or just disconnect the thermo sensor -- but make sure the engine case is around 77F or you may have to remove it and take in side to test it.

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The 98 I bought with no spark had that adapter thingy with a new CDI the guy had just had installed from Honda a month or two before I bought the bike. 

 

They replaced the CDI and it ran, but they didn’t catch the bad voltage regulator so it quickly fried the new CDI.

 

I put a used regulator from PSN on there and a 350 Rancher CDI and it fired right up and ran like a top. 

 

The 350 CDI attaches directly to the factory plug without that funky looking harness. You’ll have the fan wires hanging off the CDI that aren’t used, but the 98-00 300’s will definitely take a 350 Rancher CDI

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