2004/2003 TRX500's oil leak or oil plugged?

[Destructo 12]

Hello! I recently purchased a pair of atv's for a great price and have been doing some inspection/repair/maintenance etc before i go beat them too badly.

ATV1 is a 2003 TRX500FA

ATV2 is a 2004 TRX500FGA

 

Both tick while running, and have many small issues so here's the issues and question I have as a newbie to ATV mechanics (long time car/jeep guy).

 

ATV 2 ran pretty well so wife and I changed the oil, diff fluid and some minor stuff like greased the brake pedal and such to unjam it. we took it for a short slow test run in the back field, now it ticks rather badly and found out that the differential seal leaks when it gets warm( we found out by the whining sound it started to make while parking it, checked fluid level and it was nearly empty)

 

I got the service manual for 2001-2003 ( there isn't one for 2004 for some reason the next set starts at 2005)

I adjusted the valve clearance to IN-0.006 EX-0.009 on both, now the 2003 runs much better but the 2004 ticks much louder than it did prior ( yes the adjustment was done correctly on the compression stroke with proper gauges, rechecked after completed and is perfect)

 

When the timing inspection port is removed to set to top dead center, and i pull the recoil starter rope on the 2003 oil sprays out the hole at me. in the same situation on the 2004 there is no oil coming out of the same hole.
My question is is which one is wrong? is the 2003 "leaking oil"  or is the 2004 "plugged up" ?

Both ATV's have proper oil pressure as far as i can tell ( my gauge isn't digital and looks like its between 21-23 psi at idle but its not easy to read perfectly due to parallax ) and pressure is good at both rpm levels as per manual.

Both ATV's have oil coming onto the valve tops as per manual so they aren't dry, however a little oil pools at the bottom of the valve cover area, is this normal for these?
Both ATV's still tick, the 2004 ticks worse than prior to me driving it ( I didn't drive it hard, we were just listen to joints to hear creaking and engine noises, gear change noises etc...basic test rip)

 

The 2004 ticks harder than it did before test run and the valve adjustment. I am aware of how valve clearance works due to thermal expansion and that the specification on these is +/- 0.001 on the valves ( IN can be .005-.007 and EX can be .008-.010) and will be setting them later this week to .005/.008 and seeing if the noise goes away, and if not then both to .001 up and see the same.

 

Also what kind of volume of oil is supposed to be coming out onto the valves? should it be a small drip or should it spray?

Any advice would be appreciated on this, looking to find out which one i need to rip apart and either unplug oil channels, or purchase new seals and replace them on the one that doesn't spray oil out the hole lol
The attached videos are Post-valve adjustment, post test run.
Thank you in advance!
 

[shadetree 5,882]

i don't mess with auto's..they are a money pit. no oil what so ever should '' spray '' out of the inspection sight hole..ever !..spec when pulling the pull starter rope. as for the ticking ?, could be the oil pump chain ?, or could be the cam chain ?, both are common to go bad. spec the oil pump chains on those models. i stay with manual shifts, they don't go bad if you take care of them ?!. unlike the es and auto's ?..they are solid to the core. you got them cheap..because no one in their right mind likes them..let alone can afford to replace the hondamatic once they go bad !. this is why they are a money pit. also, they have a bad design on the oil pumps..newer models have an upgraded oil pump..this pump cost around 400 bucks ?, and you must split the engine in order to change them out.

[Destructo 12]

I'm well aware that autos suck and why I got them cheap, 2 of 4 people in my household other than myself don't do manual shift, and have no experience with off road vehicles, the cost of these 2 bikes and a single Hondamatic shipped internationally cost me far less than a single average manual bike in great condition where I live. (I can afford to dump 2k beyond all that and still be cheaper by a couple thousand dollars than one of the Chinese cheapo bikes brand new)
 

Anyways, so judging by your comment, the 2003 that spits oil out the timing inspection hole needs some seal replaced but the 2004 is proper?  simple enough, thanks if that's the case.

It does it regardless if I'm pulling the recoil starter by hand or with the electric starter. oil pressure is good on both while cold and warm at both rpm levels.

I'm aware what it takes to deal with the pump issues and have one in the mail anyways for future protection, measly 250$ CDN for the upgraded part and splitting the case is nothing given that these motors weigh very little compared to the 550+ lb cast iron inline sixes I'm used to. its a mere couple bolts nuts and clamps to remove.

However not being used to what these particular vehicles commonly sound like I'm trying to get them both sorted out to where i trust them enough for the 3 or 4 hunting trips and odd rip around the feild by the kids they will get used for per year. not overly concerned about the Hondamatic whatsoever given I have 2 of them and a brand new one ready to be shipped out in a moments notice and the extreme ease of replacing them.  I'm more concerned with replacing all the seals, and check valves, and ensuring everything is being oiled how its supposed to then the valve seats handled and reface the surface.

just wasn't sure which bike is in the correct situation either the one that oils me or the one that doesn't and the service manuals oil flow diagram is pretty poor quality lol

Thank you kindly!

[jeepwm69 7,601]

I believe the faulty oil pumps were only on 01 –02 models.

 

They are not fun to work on, but I have come to like the way they ride. Seamless power. Wife has one whereas I ride foot shifts.

 

According to @Brian Bertramthe later Hondamatics with the updated oil pump rarely fail.

 

@shadetree picked up an extra engine for mine this morning!  Traded an old set of fenders, tail lights, and three CV axles for this one

[shadetree 5,882]

7 minutes ago, jeepwm69 said:

I believe the faulty oil pumps were only on 01 –02 models.

 

They are not fun to work on, but I have come to like the way they ride. Seamless power. Wife has one whereas I ride foot shifts.

 

According to @Brian Bertramthe later Hondamatics with the updated oil pump rarely fail.

 

@shadetree picked up an extra engine for mine this morning!  Traded an old set of fenders, tail lights, and three CV axles for this one

good deal bro, i tried to get that motor to ya for bottom price..he would not budge..you know how he is !..lol. i made a deal with him, told him i want the whole front end off that '04 trx450fm frame he has, i want the front diff, axles, a-arms, all of it..maybe not the drums ?, i got disk brakes on mine. he totally agreed to let me have it all in trade for building these 3 atvs lately. the diff alone is right at 1k new !..lol.

[shadetree 5,882]

30 minutes ago, Destructo said:

I'm well aware that autos suck and why I got them cheap, 2 of 4 people in my household other than myself don't do manual shift, and have no experience with off road vehicles, the cost of these 2 bikes and a single Hondamatic shipped internationally cost me far less than a single average manual bike in great condition where I live. (I can afford to dump 2k beyond all that and still be cheaper by a couple thousand dollars than one of the Chinese cheapo bikes brand new)
 

Anyways, so judging by your comment, the 2003 that spits oil out the timing inspection hole needs some seal replaced but the 2004 is proper?  simple enough, thanks if that's the case.

It does it regardless if I'm pulling the recoil starter by hand or with the electric starter. oil pressure is good on both while cold and warm at both rpm levels.

I'm aware what it takes to deal with the pump issues and have one in the mail anyways for future protection, measly 250$ CDN for the upgraded part and splitting the case is nothing given that these motors weigh very little compared to the 550+ lb cast iron inline sixes I'm used to. its a mere couple bolts nuts and clamps to remove.

However not being used to what these particular vehicles commonly sound like I'm trying to get them both sorted out to where i trust them enough for the 3 or 4 hunting trips and odd rip around the feild by the kids they will get used for per year. not overly concerned about the Hondamatic whatsoever given I have 2 of them and a brand new one ready to be shipped out in a moments notice and the extreme ease of replacing them.  I'm more concerned with replacing all the seals, and check valves, and ensuring everything is being oiled how its supposed to then the valve seats handled and reface the surface.

just wasn't sure which bike is in the correct situation either the one that oils me or the one that doesn't and the service manuals oil flow diagram is pretty poor quality lol

Thank you kindly!

you may..or may not want to go full blown on this ?, but if you are going to install a brand new hondamatic ?, then replace everything that calls for it !. oil seals, cam chain, oil pump chain, oil pump, give it a very good inspection !. complete engine gasket kit, some yamabond ( used where there is no gasket ..DO NOT USE RTV SEALANT ! ). sounds like cash is not a prob ?, if this is the case ?, then please , go all out...fix it right, be done with it. i wish ya the best of luck !.

[Destructo 12]

I have the updated oil pump on its way in the mail right now. ill install it when one of these ones fail me. as for the hondamatic the new ones are less than 3500 to my door so im still WAY less than even the crappiest chinese quad in my area lol. before i even get that far id be engine swapping and turning both of these into a single one.

its not really that "cash is not a problem" but i can come up with a decent chunk when needed if needed ( i work in a broken old oil refinery that's entering turnaround season so its not hard to pull an extra 40 double time hours out of a hat when needed however i do have a limit of how deep ill go before i upsell these for a profit or micro-loss with a box full of brand new parts.) both of these quads shift great in ES and auto modes and the trans sound fine so far. 

the only 2 issues ive got right now is noise in the lifter/valve area, and the one sprayed oil out the timing hole at the back right of the bike and didnt know if these do that or if a seal is toast in there. Knowing the answer to the latter dictates which one will get the new piston and gasket kit, the new valves, the refacing and numerous other small parts ive got in the mail on the way, while the other will be completely dismantled and inspected then either rebuild or become parts depending what's going on inside it. this far up north anything that runs without issue is 10k or more regardless of age, anything less in price has issues or unobtainable parts. MOST people up here have so much credit and so little brains that fixing small problems becomes a throw money at it and buy brand new on credit ( instead of adjusting a valve you buy a new bike like a fool) I on the other hand dont mind having a 7 grand cap on a pair of excellent learning experience for my wife/10year old/14 year old as well as myself and still being a grand or 5 less than the lowest quality tao tao at canadian tire in the 500cc range lol   and thats IF they have one in stock.

ive seen a couple 500 CC bikes up here between 2500 and 5k with the seller claiming "mint" but upon further inspection they ALL have been dunked in the muskeg and we all know what that means. 

only one of these had any issues and it was a roll over so the body is toast and the overheat light came on but once i cleaned the rad and oil cooler of the muskeg-turned-into-cement it hasent done that again.

now i gotta hunt down the reason for the tick, inspect the oil pressure relief, replace a diff seal,and find whats not stopping oil from coming out the timing hole and then ill have 2 ugly hondas to beat up for a year or 2 before i have enough free cash to buy a 2020+ from edmonton or something plus the truck and trailer required to tow the thing around. Where i live now i can rip junk into the woods and hunt without issue but i gotta get at least one of these to a trustable level.

 

The most important part of it all is the wife/kids getting their hands greasy and nobodys tearing down a brand new bike for no reason but they would be wise to learn how before getting their hands on something brand new and destroying things due to not knowing the ins and outs.