1987 Honda 350d spark-no spark

[Jared k 14]

After it initially stopped working ( running) I pulled the hose off of the pump going to carb and as I tried to crank it- zero fuel came out... I did the manuals test of checking voltage at cut relay and then adding jumper wire to plug and turned key on and pump pushed fuel like crazy with that jumper wire in plug at relay ... 

not sure how to rule out if it’s the relay or pump

[toodeep 1,758]

Have you checked your fuel filter? The pumps do get louder and run constantly when they have no fuel. That might, might have been a problem and now is causing the fuel pump to go bad. It's just some points under the black cover of the fuel pump and they do wear out over time, even faster if it's over worked. 

[Jared k 14]

I have not- I will though thank you for input !!

[Jared k 14]

Ok guys so my new fuel pump has arrived ( yes Amazon fuel pump ) and I installed it and tried to start the machine and it would not fire and I heard a relay click so I looked back at the fuel cut relay to notice a little smoke coming off of it so I shut the key off and went back and looked and it looked like it was starting to fry the relay. Through doing some looking through the manual and looking on the four wheeler it looked like the four wheelers side of the wiring to the fuel pump being a green and a black with a blue tracer had the opposite bullet point connectors as the new fuel pump. Meaning the black and blue wire of the four wheeler should plug on to the hot wire of the fuel pump and the fuel pump has a positive symbol on one wire and the other wire is a solid black… The bullet points are incorrect to line up that way so I switched them just assuming that was because of somebody messing with the bike in the past or because of the Amazon pump… I then went through the manuals troubleshooting process of the fuel cut relay inspection and The first two steps check out and the third step checks out however step for require starting the engine to do the final check and I obviously cannot do that because it will not start. Throughout the entire process after putting on the new fuel pump at no point did I ever hear it click or click gang trying to build up pressure or pressurize so I am completely stumped, did I fry the fuel cut relay right off the bat so now I won’t get anywhere? Is this new fuel pump a piece of crap? Or am I just being dumb here

[AKATV 820]

Have you tried to power up the new pump directly to see if it powers up and pumps fuel?

Sounds like your relay was shorting out or bad

Might want to check wiring on amazon pump and make sure the relay was not sending 12 volts direct to  ground (short)

Not a big fan of China/Amazon cheapo parts

Edited August 22, 2022 by AKATV

[Jared k 14]

That was going to be my next question, as I did run a wire straight to the battery and connect to the hot wire on pump and left the ground wire in pump connected to factory connector on four wheeler... it clicked several times like it was priming and fired right up. 
I haven’t left it run very long yet as I want to see if it would be safe to “ hot wire” the pump and run it without damaging anything? This would indeed conclude that that relay is ! though right? 
also for drawn out temporarily purposed experiment- can I just run a key on power wire to the pump and “ temporarily “ call it a day?

[AKATV 820]

Keep in mind if you hotwire your pump and it runs continuously and does not shut down at pressure, you were on the risk of overheating your pump and over pressurizing the fuel system

I’m not sure if the pump itself shuts down at pressure or if the relay controls the ability to be able to do that so that’s something to check out

It’s possible that the relay controls the crank signal to fire up the pump etc. probably need the experts to chime in on this 
Be careful hotwiring that directly until you find out

 

 

[jeepwm69 7,600]

[Jared k 14]

Well said LOL ... understood!

[jeepwm69 7,600]

2 hours ago, Jared k said:

Well said LOL ... understood!

 

Well I saved it to my phone because it hit really close to home!

[Jared k 14]

Ok my genius atv pros I need help again/ still!! So I have baked the cdi, fried and replaced fuel cut relay, replaced fuel pump... boom- fired right up, pump primes( clicks) right when I turn key on then stops and machine fired right off. It just ran for a solid 20 minutes and sounded great... pump would click periodically as normal and I could rev it here and there — all good. And then just like that it died... I am back to no spark! So I went through the books cdi unit inspection with everything passing except the primary ignition coil ... so I go straight  to the ignition coil book testing... secondary resistance passses but I have 0.00 on primary coil resistance. It is a new coil - yes off Amazon- but is it as simple as  it’s a cheap Chinese coil so it just failed already or is something else throwing it off? Please help!!

[jeepwm69 7,600]

Do you have your original coil?   If so, try swapping that back on.

 

Electrical problems are the worst for most of us.  Retro, AKATV, and Melatv seem to thrive on them, but normal people don't like that voodoo stuff.

[Goober 1,555]

When i was troubleshooting no spark on my ‘86, I found electrical problems.

 

first my coil wire where it get spiked by the spark plug cap was very corroded. I cut off a half inch—til i got to uncorroded wire. And cleaned the spike with a .22 bore brush.

 

most importantly i found the wire connecting to the neutral switch to be intermittent. See right next to the N R harness support? That N wire insulation was a bit disfigured—the wire was hanging on by a thread. I rebuilt the harness connectors and solved my problem.

[Jared k 14]

So by the coil failing the primary coil resistance test... you wouldn’t automatically assume the coil is bad? 
it was brand new off of Amazon . And I don’t have the original coil either, it had been swapped with another Chinese special before I got ahold of it...

my neutral light and oil light all work properly and like I said it ran perfectly for about 20 mins and then completely dead with no spark 

[AKATV 820]

---

I know you’re chasing down a potential coil issue right now but  keep in mind you said when you had no spark before and that you tapped on the CDI you had a faint weak spark

It could be your CDI acting up again -either baking it didn’t fix it the first time and it needs a second time or it has an internal issue the baking cannot resolve

 I would check your spark again and tap on the CDI while cranking to see if your spark comes back

 

---

 

[Jared k 14]

Thank you , yes actually I thought that same thing and did rap on it while cranking and still nothing, so my thoughts- and I need the masters input here... is putting an oem coil on first. Then addressing that cdi next ...?

[AKATV 820]

A couple things have me wondering….

are 100% sure on how you’re checking the coil?

and then there’s the fact that it’s an Amazon coil…..

These cheap China parts just add a lot of pain and confusion to repairing and troubleshooting

Can you compare your readings on the new coil to the old coil? 

Also, when you get a chance let me know the numbers that are printed on the white plastic plug-in part of your CDI

It should have a little blue label if its  still there

I’m just shooting from the hip but I think you still have a CDI issue

but it’s obvious,I it runs fine and quits after 10 or 20 minutes that you have a component that is breaking down electronically or due to heat

Are you able to start it again after a period of time or is the spark completely dead at this point?

 

 

 

[Jared k 14]

Both coils are dead ... and yes I’m following the manuals primary coil test- olms test in plug end and green connector point . I get a reading of 0 and the manual I think says it should be .1-.3 or something. Cdi reads HA7 C1537

and no there is still zero spark long after it has cooled down..

[Goober 1,555]

At this point, I’m thinking wires and connectors, not modules and components. Have you removed the front fender and inspected harnesses?

Here’s another I found while troubleshooting my no spark problem. RUN switch on a D model has to have continuity from Bl/G to Bl/W which connects fuel cut and CDI 

Edited August 26, 2022 by Goober

[Goober 1,555]

4 minutes ago, Jared k said:

Both coils are dead ... and yes I’m following the manuals primary coil test- olms test in plug end and green connector point . I get a reading of 0 and the manual I think says it should be .1-.3 or something. Cdi reads HA7 C1537

and no there is still zero spark long after it has cooled down..

This is worth tracking 

[jeepwm69 7,600]

1 hour ago, Jared k said:

So by the coil failing the primary coil resistance test... you wouldn’t automatically assume the coil is bad? 
it was brand new off of Amazon . And I don’t have the original coil either, it had been swapped with another Chinese special before I got ahold of it...

my neutral light and oil light all work properly and like I said it ran perfectly for about 20 mins and then completely dead with no spark 

 

Looks like 86-89 coils were all the same.  I have several carcasses around here.  Problem is, none run so I don't know if any of these coils are good.

 

If you want I'll send you a couple and you can try them, but I'm with Goober and AKATV that it sounds more CDIsh to me.

 

I don't have an 87 350D, so don't have a CDI you could try on it, since that model is CDI specific.

[Jared k 14]

So goober... treat me like I’m dumb please LOL... I understand the run switch and the wires your talking but how to I determine wether they have continuity based on having several points of connection along their run? 

[Goober 1,555]

I try to inspect every connector and wire that’s not wrapped. Most of the time you’ll see damage on unwrapped wires—rarely in the wrapping. But You won’t see loosely wired pins unless you disco the connectors. 
it’s no fun but you can access most of the connectors for this circuit by pulling the front right inner fender. I find it easier to remove the fender.

 

see what i found here? 

 

[Jared k 14]

Yikes... now I notice there is a black wire with white tracer unconnected in your pic.. I just found same instance in mine- normal? Somebody has done electrical work on this in the past there are a couple different spices and new connectors added to either extend wires that may have been damaged or screwing around trying to figure things out but at face value everything looks tight, I’m gonna start digging a little bit though

[Goober 1,555]

On a TRX350A that Bl/W wire separately (not part of a harness) connects to the engine stop switch and ignition switch. And CDI 
 

On the TRX350D i think it’s part of a 2-wire connector along with Bl/Bn. Directly to CDI 

 

edit main thing check that your stop switch isn’t creating a intermittent connection 

Edited August 26, 2022 by Goober