1987 Honda 350d spark-no spark

[Jared k 14]

As soon as my wife gets done using the oven for dinner I’m on it LOL...

[AKATV 820]

Hence my toaster oven in the garage lol

Happy wife happy life

[Jared k 14]

Too funny... genius!

[AKATV 820]

Just to be clear you had no spark at all at the spark plug and then when you were tapping you got a few faint sporadic sparks correct?

Because if you had faint sporadic sparks without tapping it could very well be something else

Edited August 17, 2022 by AKATV

[Jared k 14]

Correct, there was zero spark while attempting to start it and only when I was tapping on the CDI did I get a few random sparks… Very few but they were only occurring if I was tapping on yes

[AKATV 820]

Sounds like a failing CDI to me,

Baking might do the trick at least until you get a chance to replace it.

Since its on the way out, be advised it also might finish it off for good

 I have some owners ATVs that are still going strong, that were baked once, 15 years back

It just depends on what is wrong internally with yours

Edited August 17, 2022 by AKATV

[Jared k 14]

So then if the CDI box is indeed failing, would that translate into strange things happening elsewhere like the fan control unit?

[AKATV 820]

No the CDI would have no impact on anything but spark

What do you consider to be going on with your fan control unit?

The first indicator of a properly working fan control unit is when you turn the key on the oil light should come on for a second or two and then go out

Then if you ground the wire that goes to your Temperature sensor with the key on your fan and light should both come on if your fan control unit is working properly

 

 

[Jared k 14]

Oh well then that being said it should be good, oil light will come on briefly then go out and grounding the blue wire at oil temp sensor turns fan on... so I suppose it’s good getting ready to bake the cdi now 

[AKATV 820]

Yes your fan controller sounds good from the preliminary checks and you need to understand that these things have to get hot —HOT…as in your lower legs will start to get uncomfortably hot  just before the fan comes on

[Jared k 14]

Ok so I have installed the cdi box and it ran solid for 25 minutes!!!! Have yet to have it running this long so I am cautiously saying I believe that did the trick! And now my fuel pump quit....but no spark has been a much bigger thing to conquer, as far as fuel it appears to be pump or fuel cut relay to investigate.

[shadetree 5,880]

19 hours ago, AKATV said:

For a spark issue the fan controller has absolutely nothing to do with spark

I would look at your CDI and I would look at your voltage regulator- I think Jeep mentioned earlier to check your voltage regulator as well

see what your voltage is on your battery with your machine off and then check your voltage with the machine running and give it about a quarter throttle it should be higher than your battery voltage and not exceed 14.5vdc

When you lose spark pull your spark plug 

And lay it on the cylinder head like you normally would check for spark

Then while cranking, tap on the CDI with the handle of a screwdriver give it a few sharp raps and see if it sparks at all 

If it does you can bake it

Don’t forget to check your stator output to your voltage regulator as well as your pulse generator and coil

Do you have the Honda Factory service manual for your machine if not download it from the service manual downloads so you can use the correct procedures

I’m not 100% sure but I think you have a DC CDI Which is a different than most CDIs So you need to make sure that your voltage regulator is charging your battery and your battery is good

 

 

 

 

 

from what i've read ( and understood ) in the honda service manual, the fan control unit DOES in fact protect the c.d.i. in an over heat , if the fan control unit fails to turn the fan on to cool the engine, it's supposed to cut power to c.d.i. ?, maybe i read it wrong ?.

[shadetree 5,880]

26 minutes ago, Jared k said:

Ok so I have installed the cdi box and it ran solid for 25 minutes!!!! Have yet to have it running this long so I am cautiously saying I believe that did the trick! And now my fuel pump quit....but no spark has been a much bigger thing to conquer, as far as fuel it appears to be pump or fuel cut relay to investigate.

run some wires straight to the fuel pump from the battery, 12 vdc, if the pump works by doing this ?, then the pump is good, and this will tell you its the fuel cut-off relay that is bad. blue wire is hot, green is ground/neg. DO NOT RUN THE PUMP DRY !!!.

[Jared k 14]

I followed the manuals test for relay and pump by checking voltage at harness for relay , adding jumper wire into harness plug at relay and this got fuel to come out of pump, I did pump test and measured fuel that came out and it was way more than book days it should... either way in normal attempt to start it I can take hose off coming from pump and no fuel comes out and I never hear it even clicking ??

[Jared k 14]

So after connecting wires directly to pump from battery( just touching leads not holding on) it makes the pump click... the next day after the 20 minute run after everything has cooled down it starts and operates as normal but I can hear the pump clicking like crazy off and on while it’s idling. This makes me believe the pump may be bad, however last night when it was running finally for so long and this got nice and hot- that’s when the pump quit working and was pumping no fuel and not clicking at all- this made me consider the fuel cut relay being bad but now it’s back and forth - just depending on if it’s hit or cold it seems.... I’m stumped 

[Goober 1,555]

I would try putting my old CDI in to see if that restores fuel pump function but seeing as you got it to work:

when the fuel pump goes bad it can buzz like crazy or not at all.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Goober

[AKATV 820]

4 hours ago, shadetree said:

from what i've read ( and understood ) in the honda service manual, the fan control unit DOES in fact protect the c.d.i. in an over heat , if the fan control unit fails to turn the fan on to cool the engine, it's supposed to cut power to c.d.i. ?, maybe i read it wrong ?.

Lol….

We all actually had the same conversation a year or so back -

What the manual states is “if the fan motor seizes, the fan control unit will cut power to the motor

The actual statement is on page

20–2 of the manual on oil cooling system troubleshooting   

You had interpreted that as shutting down power to the actual engine and killing spark -what it really means is that it is cutting power to the fan motor 

If you look at the two individual circuits on the wiring diagram they don’t even cross paths and it would be impossible for the fan control unit to shut down spark

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by AKATV

[AKATV 820]

[AKATV 820]

3 hours ago, Jared k said:

So after connecting wires directly to pump from battery( just touching leads not holding on) it makes the pump click... the next day after the 20 minute run after everything has cooled down it starts and operates as normal but I can hear the pump clicking like crazy off and on while it’s idling. This makes me believe the pump may be bad, however last night when it was running finally for so long and this got nice and hot- that’s when the pump quit working and was pumping no fuel and not clicking at all- this made me consider the fuel cut relay being bad but now it’s back and forth - just depending on if it’s hit or cold it seems.... I’m stumped 

Check your fuel level in the tank and position of your fuel selector

You could have run pump low on fuel, especially if fuel level in the tank dropped to next level pickup tube (reserve)-

and you are not in the reserve position on the fuel selector

These fuel pumps work hard as have to pump fuel uphill, when they get weak they will act up

You can also disassemble and clean up the points contacts on the pump as well,

I have done quite a few thru the years and they get surprisingly dirty, not to hard to do

 

...story about old man whose Foreman 350 fuel pump quit on him way back in the woods up here

when he finally came out miles later friends saw he had rigged a up an IV bag and line with fuel to the carb from his first aid bag

had IV bag up high,duct taped to a branch he jammed down thru the footpeg

they said it looked like he escaped from the hospital....lol

Good Times.....

[Goober 1,555]

check fuel filter is not clogged 

check petcock is not clogged 
 

There are two suction lines in the fuel tank and they may also have strainer baskets on the ends. This keeps the pump from sucking up coarse solids. However small particles like rust can build up in the lines. If you remove the petcock, you can use a 16 inch piece of weedwacker line to ensure the lines are clear.

in the past I’ve used a piece of throttle cable to drill thru obstructions in the suction line. Bee careful! Don’t poke too hard or you could pierce the strainer basket or get the cable ends stuck in the basket 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Goober

[Goober 1,555]

Listing for complete fuel pump

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1988-87-89-HONDA-TRX350D-4x4-Fourtrax-oem-gas-electric-fuel-pump-original-mount-/134198885870?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m2548.l6249&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0

[Jared k 14]

The only thing there is I can start it now and pump pumps fuel like crazy and it starts then it clicks very fast for several minutes. Then I shut it down and restart it and it won’t click at all...

[AKATV 820]

You realize once it buzzes fast and pumps up and reaches  pressure that its not supposed click fast anymore right?

Once it’s clicks and pumps up to pressure

it stops, and while the engine is running if you put your hand on it it’ll click/ pulse like once every few seconds kind a like a heartbeat to keep pressure up

I’ve had 7-8 through the years of this same model

[Jared k 14]

I figured that was the case from reading the manual but before it stopped working it was pulsing rapidly while running without slowing down- the funny part is I actually suspected a valve train tap until I listened closer and found with a screw driver touching the pump and had due to my ear that it was indeed the pump clicking that loudly- consistently and constantly...

[AKATV 820]

Maybe you have a problem with your carburetor float bowl leaking fuel at the needle valve or overflow and it’s not pumping up to pressure

When your pump is clicking rapidly if you pinch off the hose coming out of the fuel pump going to the carburetor the clicking should slow down and stop

That will at least allow you to tell if your pump is working as it should

or not

Edited August 19, 2022 by AKATV