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Empty_Pockets

No lights or spark

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picked up this 98 foreman for 300 dollars few weeks ago. just now getting around to working on it. ignition key wires have been cut and twisted together, I'm guessing to hotwire it. got new one on order. the speedometer is gone and they cut a few other wires around the fuse box and starter solenoid. when I hook a battery up to it I have power to the ignition wires but the starter button doesn't work nor do the oil and neutral lights or headlights come on and there is no spark. I can turn over the engine by jumping the solenoid. the starter is good. the solenoid and fuses are good. there is no power going to the front except to the key switch. any help would be appreciated.

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4 hours ago, Empty_Pockets said:

picked up this 98 foreman for 300 dollars few weeks ago. just now getting around to working on it. ignition key wires have been cut and twisted together, I'm guessing to hotwire it. got new one on order. the speedometer is gone and they cut a few other wires around the fuse box and starter solenoid. when I hook a battery up to it I have power to the ignition wires but the starter button doesn't work nor do the oil and neutral lights or headlights come on and there is no spark. I can turn over the engine by jumping the solenoid. the starter is good. the solenoid and fuses are good. there is no power going to the front except to the key switch. any help would be appreciated.

welcome to our forums. well , one thing is for sure !, you picked a great screen name ?..IT WILL MATCH YOUR BANK ACCOUNT JUST FINE BY THE TIME YOU GET ALL NEW PARTS TO MAKE IT WORK !..LOL. ok..now that is out of the way. anytime a ignition key is gone, wires mangled ?, this tells me it's either stolen ?, or, the owner/owners lost the keys alot ?. you will need a new wire harness, DO NOT WASTE TIME WITH THAT MESSED UP HARNESS !. ( unless you are very skilled with wires and connectors ? ), you will need a new hour/speedo meter , this may or may not be discontinued today ?, if you do find one ?, it will not be cheap !. good on you for getting a ignition switch ( i hope you got oem from honda ? ). and did not buy one from ebay are amazon ?..as most on there are china-knock offs !. there will be more parts you will need later..i'll bank on it !. you must have a good wire harness, hour/speedo meter, all lights on dash working, eps the neutral light !, as it will not fire the spark plug unless the dash shows a neutral light. please keep us informed of your progress, we'll be here for you !.

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3 hours ago, shadetree said:

this tells me it's either stolen ?

 

Hello EP, welcome to the forums! 

 

I hate to say this... But yeah.. When i read the post, that's the 1st thing that got my attention .... I hope that's not the case. 

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8 hours ago, shadetree said:

welcome to our forums. well , one thing is for sure !, you picked a great screen name ?..IT WILL MATCH YOUR BANK ACCOUNT JUST FINE BY THE TIME YOU GET ALL NEW PARTS TO MAKE IT WORK !..LOL. ok..now that is out of the way. anytime a ignition key is gone, wires mangled ?, this tells me it's either stolen ?, or, the owner/owners lost the keys alot ?. you will need a new wire harness, DO NOT WASTE TIME WITH THAT MESSED UP HARNESS !. ( unless you are very skilled with wires and connectors ? ), you will need a new hour/speedo meter , this may or may not be discontinued today ?, if you do find one ?, it will not be cheap !. good on you for getting a ignition switch ( i hope you got oem from honda ? ). and did not buy one from ebay are amazon ?..as most on there are china-knock offs !. there will be more parts you will need later..i'll bank on it !. you must have a good wire harness, hour/speedo meter, all lights on dash working, eps the neutral light !, as it will not fire the spark plug unless the dash shows a neutral light. please keep us informed of your progress, we'll be here for you !.

 

 

 

thanks for the reply about the neutral light that gives me another area to start testing. i will get the Speedometer on order soon. i don't think it is stolen the guy had it out in the yard for anyone to see. but you are right it will be needing a bunch more parts. if anyone has pics of under the seat where the battery goes would be helpful for in acquiring those parts. it is missing the parts for the seat latch and the rubber parts the seat  plastic pieces go into. and maybe a cover, I'm not really sure i have never owned a foreman before so I don't know what all is supposed to be there. is there an IPB (illustrated parts break down) of honda foremans some where?

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4 hours ago, _Wilson_™ said:

 

Hello EP, welcome to the forums! 

 

I hate to say this... But yeah.. When i read the post, that's the 1st thing that got my attention .... I hope that's not the case. 

 

I'm fairly sure that's not the case. the guy had it out in the yard for everyone to see.  i  have ran the vin number and nothing about it came up. Most of the time people just lose the key cut the wires and tell themselves they will buy a new key switch next week but end up never doing so. 

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37 minutes ago, Empty_Pockets said:

 

 

 

thanks for the reply about the neutral light that gives me another area to start testing. i will get the Speedometer on order soon. i don't think it is stolen the guy had it out in the yard for anyone to see. but you are right it will be needing a bunch more parts. if anyone has pics of under the seat where the battery goes would be helpful for in acquiring those parts. it is missing the parts for the seat latch and the rubber parts the seat  plastic pieces go into. and maybe a cover, I'm not really sure i have never owned a foreman before so I don't know what all is supposed to be there. is there an IPB (illustrated parts break down) of honda foremans some where?

you can down load the service manual from our sight here for free. you can also go to partzilla or rocky mountain atv, pull up the year, make, model for a break down of this atv. post some pics of this atv...we like atv pics !.

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Well I figured out 2 things.

1. I need gasses, I can no longer see things up close anymore without it being fuzzy.

2. 2 of the fuses were bad, which I found out after I tested them in the fuse box with my multimeter with power going to it.

 

So after replacing the fuses it has lights and spark and it even ran with what little gas was in it. gonna clean up the wiring mess the people I bought it from did. then oil change and filter then buy new air filter, battery bar for the seat, speedometer, mud flaps for the plastics and the rear storage box.

 

Thanks for the help.

Edited by Empty_Pockets
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Well i am stumped on another problem now. i can get the motor started and it idles fine but when i give it gas it dies. the carb is clean plus i bought a new carb because the one that was on it didn't have air cutoff valve as it was an amazon special as well as the one i just bought but a lot better. I just cant justify spending 400 dollars on a Honda carb. the new carb does the same thing, dies when given throttle. pulled the spark plug and it was wet and black. which means it is getting fuel. I'm thinking its not getting a strong enough spark so maybe the pulse generator or stator is bad. any other ideas?

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38 minutes ago, Empty_Pockets said:

Well i am stumped on another problem now. i can get the motor started and it idles fine but when i give it gas it dies. the carb is clean plus i bought a new carb because the one that was on it didn't have air cutoff valve as it was an amazon special as well as the one i just bought but a lot better. I just cant justify spending 400 dollars on a Honda carb. the new carb does the same thing, dies when given throttle. pulled the spark plug and it was wet and black. which means it is getting fuel. I'm thinking its not getting a strong enough spark so maybe the pulse generator or stator is bad. any other ideas?

i never...ever..use china knock-off carbs !. first thing you need to do is do a compression test ?. compare it to specs in the service manual ?. if its low ?, it wont run right. if the compression is ok ?, then please check the timing. which foreman is this ?, trx400fm ?, or trx450fm ?.both are the same engine for the most part. when you check the timing marks ?, check the sight hole ( allen bolt , right rear side of engine ), line up the T mark to the line just inside the hole. remove the pull starter, on one of the tangs is a line, it runs front to back..towards the cover, right behind the starter cage, at the back side of the line, is a raised arrow pointing down, should be about 1 o;clock roughly ?, both this arrow, and the line on the starter cage must line up, as well as the T mark in the sight hole. IF THEY BOTH DO NOT LINE UP ?, THIS MEANS THE CAM CHAIN IS STRETCHED, AND THE TIMING IS OFF WITH THE CAM AND CRANK, WHICH MEANS YOUR VALVES WILL BE OFF !.

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it is a 400. i can understand not buying knock offs. if was gonna keep it i would buy a Honda carb. but I plan on selling it. most people when buying a used 4 wheeler wont care if the carb is a cheap china knock off or a real Honda carb. all they are concerned about is if it runs and doesn't smokes. so if I cant recoup the costs when selling it its not worth it in the end. right now I have about 400 dollars into it. the new speedometer is gonna cost me about 450 dollars. at most I can probably get 1500 when i sell it, if i were to get a new Honda carb that would put me at about a 200 dollar profit if it sells for 1500. its not worth it in m opinion

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4 hours ago, Empty_Pockets said:

it is a 400. i can understand not buying knock offs. if was gonna keep it i would buy a Honda carb. but I plan on selling it. most people when buying a used 4 wheeler wont care if the carb is a cheap china knock off or a real Honda carb. all they are concerned about is if it runs and doesn't smokes. so if I cant recoup the costs when selling it its not worth it in the end. right now I have about 400 dollars into it. the new speedometer is gonna cost me about 450 dollars. at most I can probably get 1500 when i sell it, if i were to get a new Honda carb that would put me at about a 200 dollar profit if it sells for 1500. its not worth it in m opinion

then for now, check what i posted above ^^^ for now.

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9 hours ago, shadetree said:

then for now, check what i posted above ^^^ for now.

compression was at 70 psi. Auto zone tool so it might be 78psi. the timing marks aren't lining up like you said. the t mark is about halfway in the sight hole but the line on the crank cage is just a little past 12 o'clock.

20230226_143544.jpg

20230226_143732.jpg

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1 hour ago, Empty_Pockets said:

compression was at 70 psi. Auto zone tool so it might be 78psi. the timing marks aren't lining up like you said. the t mark is about halfway in the sight hole but the line on the crank cage is just a little past 12 o'clock.

20230226_143544.jpg

20230226_143732.jpg

you really don't line up the T mark, you line up the line in sight hole, and the line to arrow at back of motor. start at back. then glance in sight hole, the line under the T mark should line up to the line in the sight hole threads.

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Just now, shadetree said:

you really don't line up the T mark, you line up the line in sight hole, and the line to arrow at back of motor. start at back. then glance in sight hole, the line under the T mark should line up to the line in the sight hole threads. 78 psi is low.

 

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 when the line on the crank cage line is at the 12 o'clock position the line under the t mark is in the middle of the sight hole. there is another raised mark at the 1 o'clock position but it looks like a directional arrow like something you would see on tires.

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5 minutes ago, Empty_Pockets said:

 when the line on the crank cage line is at the 12 o'clock position the line under the t mark is in the middle of the sight hole. there is another raised mark at the 1 o'clock position but it looks like a directional arrow like something you would see on tires.

just use the line under the T mark, middle of sight hole, line on starter cage, lined up to stamped arrow behind the starter cage line on tab. KEEP IN MIND !!!!, JUST BECAUSE THESE TWO LINE UP ?, DOES NOT MEAN THE TIMING MARKS ON THE CAM SPROCKET ARE LINED UP !!!, if the cam chain jumped time from a stretched cam chain ?, this will throw the valves off when it comes time for the compression stroke in the cylinder. when i build an engine from scratch ?, i make sure to have all 3 timing marks line up, THEY MUST LINE UP IN ORDER FOR THE ENGINE TO RUN..that is..if you know you have a good piston in it ?..lol.

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57 minutes ago, shadetree said:

just use the line under the T mark, middle of sight hole, line on starter cage, lined up to stamped arrow behind the starter cage line on tab. KEEP IN MIND !!!!, JUST BECAUSE THESE TWO LINE UP ?, DOES NOT MEAN THE TIMING MARKS ON THE CAM SPROCKET ARE LINED UP !!!, if the cam chain jumped time from a stretched cam chain ?, this will throw the valves off when it comes time for the compression stroke in the cylinder. when i build an engine from scratch ?, i make sure to have all 3 timing marks line up, THEY MUST LINE UP IN ORDER FOR THE ENGINE TO RUN..that is..if you know you have a good piston in it ?..lol.

 

 the engine idles just fine. its when I give it throttle it will die. I wasn't sure if I was supposed to have the throttle open when doing the compression check so the 70 psi number is when the throttle was closed, I did the check again with the throttle open and got 95 psi. the lines match what you are saying.

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11 minutes ago, Empty_Pockets said:

 

 the engine idles just fine. its when I give it throttle it will die. I wasn't sure if I was supposed to have the throttle open when doing the compression check so the 70 psi number is when the throttle was closed, I did the check again with the throttle open and got 95 psi. the lines match what you are saying.

ok..timing sounds good then.

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18 hours ago, Empty_Pockets said:

Well i am stumped on another problem now. i can get the motor started and it idles fine but when i give it gas it dies. the carb is clean plus i bought a new carb because the one that was on it didn't have air cutoff valve as it was an amazon special as well as the one i just bought but a lot better. I just cant justify spending 400 dollars on a Honda carb. the new carb does the same thing, dies when given throttle. pulled the spark plug and it was wet and black. which means it is getting fuel. I'm thinking its not getting a strong enough spark so maybe the pulse generator or stator is bad. any other ideas?

lets back up to this post. remove the air box all the way out of the at, next, find a fuel hose about 6-9 inches long, install it on the carb fuel inlet. try to fill the line with some fresh fuel, crank it up, try rev'ing it..see it it dies again ?. if it does not die ?, then you are not getting enough fuel from the tank to the carb. 

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Just now, Empty_Pockets said:

I'm thinking its the pulse generator or cdi box.

nope..if these were the problem ?, it would not idle at all !. in other words..it wont crank an run at idle.

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13 hours ago, Empty_Pockets said:

did the gas line and as soon as i hit the throttle it died.

 

Shot of starter fluid on the air filter, see if it revs up.

 

If you narrow it down to the carb, you could put a new OEM 350 Rancher or 450 Foreman carb on it for $160ish.

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1 hour ago, jeepwm69 said:

 

Shot of starter fluid on the air filter, see if it revs up.

 

If you narrow it down to the carb, you could put a new OEM 350 Rancher or 450 Foreman carb on it for $160ish.

 

tried several times to rev it up with starter fluid and same thing, dies when given throttle. even tried to bypass the carb and spray fuel directly into the intake as well as starting fluid. same thing happens.  any specific years for those carbs?

Edited by Empty_Pockets

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56 minutes ago, Empty_Pockets said:

 

tried several times to rev it up with starter fluid and same thing, dies when given throttle. even tried to bypass the carb and spray fuel directly into the intake as well as starting fluid. same thing happens.  any specific years for those carbs?

 

If it still dies out under throttle, you have an electrical/timing/valve issue, not a carb issue.  Figure out what else you have going on before you drop money on a carb you might not need.

 

05-06 350 Rancher and 04 Foreman 450FM are well under $200 for OEM new.  I had a spare new 350 Rancher carb in my shop I put on my buddies 450 just to see if his stumbling was the carb or something else, and it ran like a top, so he ordered a new OEM carb for his 450 and it was about $160.

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