Ball bearings and metal debris in crankcase

[Display Name 9]

What am I missing? I found this after splitting the crankcase in my 01 trx500 trapped by the oil screen. I have no idea what its from. Everything works fine and I haven't found any damaged or missing races. 

Edited April 12, 2023 by Display Name

[_Wilson_™ 6,563]

You had spoken about issues in the other thread under new members..... I haven't had time to read it very closely yet..... Is this related.... As you spoke of a sprocket being wobbly (i hope I'm on track) cause that ^^* got my attention.... 

[Display Name 9]

8 minutes ago, _Wilson_™ said:

You had spoken about issues in the other thread under new members..... I haven't had time to read it very closely yet..... Is this related.... As you spoke of a sprocket being wobbly (i hope I'm on track) cause that ^^* got my attention.... 

I dont believe its related. My oil pump sprocket wobbles a bit but there was no sign that it caused any issues. I was just curious if that was normal. I think it might be. There is no bearing race that goes with that sprocket.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Display Name

[Fishfiles 20,145]

I would say that is #7 in this pic 

7

BEARING, RADIAL BALL (6813) (NTN) 91007-HN2-004  Ships in 2 to 3 days

$64.91 $60.37

[Display Name 9]

@Fishfiles thats a good guess. I thought the same because its similar size but that bearing still looks intact in the clutch cover. I'm begining to wonder if someone replaced it once and didn't get all the debris out.

[Fishfiles 20,145]

You never know what the previous owner did.
 

What’s up with the shaft cocked to the side in the pic. Maybe the bearing inside has failed. I have read that is the common failure problem with Hondamatic 

[_Wilson_™ 6,563]

8 hours ago, Display Name said:

@Fishfiles thats a good guess. I thought the same because its similar size but that bearing still looks intact in the clutch cover. I'm begining to wonder if someone replaced it once and didn't get all the debris out.

 

I must have missed the part where it had been split by the previous owner.... Or was in fact split.... If that's the case good catch, bit of a hassle .... Sure shows lack of skill lieving that debris behind ... If your not forsure it's been spilt... Might ask the previous owner... If that too is the case... I'd check things even closer ... Tuned in ... 

[Display Name 9]

1 hour ago, _Wilson_™ said:

 

I must have missed the part where it had been split by the previous owner.... Or was in fact split.... If that's the case good catch, bit of a hassle .... Sure shows lack of skill lieving that debris behind ... If your not forsure it's been spilt... Might ask the previous owner... If that too is the case... I'd check things even closer ... Tuned in 

Thats just a guess and a hope as well. I have no choice but to keep looking but I cannot find where this debris would have come from. Im going through the manual and looking at parts diagrams to figure out what it could be but everything I've found is intact and functioning smoothly. I will definitely update when I figure it out. 

[Display Name 9]

3 hours ago, Fishfiles said:

You never know what the previous owner did.
 

What’s up with the shaft cocked to the side in the pic. Maybe the bearing inside has failed. I have read that is the common failure problem with Hondamatic 

Not quite sure what you're refering to. Only thing I haven't removed is the crank and that is running smoothly. Also, would assume it has larger bearings in it but I might have to remove it just to see if I can find anything. All the parts I've examined look true.

[Fishfiles 20,145]

37 minutes ago, Display Name said:

Not quite sure what you're refering to. Only thing I haven't removed is the crank and that is running smoothly. Also, would assume it has larger bearings in it but I might have to remove it just to see if I can find anything. All the parts I've examined look true.

See your red arrow in your pic , it is pointing to the shaft and the shaft is leaning against the bearing and not centered , " could " that be from the bearing inside being bad ,  is what I am saying 

 

 I am not a Hondamatic guy , never will be --- we have some guys here that are very knowledgeable on them , let's see if we can get them @toodeep @jeepwm69

 

[Display Name 9]

6 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

See your red arrow in your pic , it is pointing to the shaft and the shaft is leaning against the bearing and not centered , " could " that be from the bearing inside being bad ,  is what I am saying 

 

 I am not a Hondamatic guy , never will be --- we have some guys here that are very knowledgeable on them , let's see if we can get them @toodeep @jeepwm69

 

Thats definitely worth checking out. I spun the bearing with my fingers and it seems fine, although not as smooth as all the others I've looked at. I'm going to take a closer look at this one to see if theres something I missed. Maybe put a mirror behind it to check for damage that cant be seen from the front.

[Display Name 9]

A little more info on this project. When I bought it it would not go into drive. Only low and reverse.

 

I have the motor out to fix the sub-transmission. Gearshift fork shaft was bent and I probably need to replace one of the shifters. 

 

While I have it on my bench I decided to go the extra mile and split the crankcase to check the oil pump and hondamatic. I was not at all expecting to find a bunch of debris in this engine. Especially not in the crankcase.

 

Oil pump seems fine but I will replace it with the updated version for peace of mind and I dont see any obvious problems with the hondamatic so I mightve gotten lucky with this one.

[jeepwm69 7,599]

17 minutes ago, Display Name said:

A little more info on this project. When I bought it it would not go into drive. Only low and reverse.

 

I have the motor out to fix the sub-transmission. Gearshift fork shaft was bent and I probably need to replace one of the shifters. 

 

While I have it on my bench I decided to go the extra mile and split the crankcase to check the oil pump and hondamatic. I was not at all expecting to find a bunch of debris in this engine. Especially not in the crankcase.

 

Oil pump seems fine but I will replace it with the updated version for peace of mind and I dont see any obvious problems with the hondamatic so I mightve gotten lucky with this one.

 

I'm going to send you Brian Betram's email address in a PM.  He rebuilds the Hondamatics, and is the best person to advise you on where those bearings would have come from.   There is a plastic bearing cage INSIDE the Hondamatic that tends to go out if the Hondamatic doesn't get the oil pressure it needs (or that's how I understood it).  Those bearings might be from that bearing.

 

At any rate, email Brian.  He's not on here much but he does respond to emails.

[Display Name 9]

6 hours ago, jeepwm69 said:

 

I'm going to send you Brian Betram's email address in a PM.  He rebuilds the Hondamatics, and is the best person to advise you on where those bearings would have come from.   There is a plastic bearing cage INSIDE the Hondamatic that tends to go out if the Hondamatic doesn't get the oil pressure it needs (or that's how I understood it).  Those bearings might be from that bearing.

 

At any rate, email Brian.  He's not on here much but he does respond to emails.

I talked with Brian for a bit. He determined that the bearings are from the Hondamatic. Its a particularl group that doesn't normally come apart. Im sending the unit to him to repair. Thanks again for your help!

[Fishfiles 20,145]

6 minutes ago, Display Name said:

I talked with Brian for a bit. He determined that the bearings are from the Hondamatic. Its a particularl group that doesn't normally come apart. Im sending the unit to him to repair. Thanks again for your help!

 

Wow , good deal ? 

 

How much on the estimate ?  >>>> I know a new OEM unit is about $1,800 plus tax and shipping , so over $2,000 

 

Did he give you a minimum cost and a worst case scenario ?   ----- 

 

Did he have a comment on the shaft being off centered ? 

[jeepwm69 7,599]

Good deal!  Thanks for reporting back.  I'm curious as to what he finds, what he charges etc as well, but I imagine he'll have to tear into it first and see what all is wrong in there.

 

More than anything I'd love to hear what bearing it was, and why it blew up.  I don't have the machining knowledge to do the kind of work Brian does, but I do like to know how things work.

[Display Name 9]

@Fishfiles @jeepwm69 Im glad someone who knows what they're doing is working on it. He talked me through some of the work but with no experience and no parts or diagrams to check my work I'd rather not risk ruining something that might still be in decent shape. It will be worth the cost.

 

So, as expected its pretty reasonable. He thinks mine has minimal damage to it and if thats the case its less than $500 for the repair but of course it goes up from there depending on what he finds. His worst case repair is still well below $1000 if its not too far gone.

 

Brian is clearly super knowledgeable. 

[Fishfiles 20,145]

That sounds good. I heard all good about Brian. 

[jeepwm69 7,599]

2 hours ago, Display Name said:

@Fishfiles @jeepwm69 Im glad someone who knows what they're doing is working on it. He talked me through some of the work but with no experience and no parts or diagrams to check my work I'd rather not risk ruining something that might still be in decent shape. It will be worth the cost.

 

So, as expected its pretty reasonable. He thinks mine has minimal damage to it and if thats the case its less than $500 for the repair but of course it goes up from there depending on what he finds. His worst case repair is still well below $1000 if its not too far gone.

 

Brian is clearly super knowledgeable. 

 

He and a user named Hagrid on the old forums are, to my knowledge, the only two who can really work magic with the Hondamatics, and I'm pretty sure Brian taught Hagrid the basics.

 

Brian is a member here, but seldom on.  I invited Hagrid but he seems to have disappeared from the ATV forum world.