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jeepwm69

05-11 Foreman 500 FM engine rebuild

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1 minute ago, shadetree said:

reminds me of the dreaded lower right cylinder bolts on the trx350 ranchers !..lol, the two on lower right side of the cylinder ?, they were always prone to snap off, no matter how easy you were on them !.

LOL.  My neighbor just broke those exact bolts off on his 02 350.  Asked if I had replacement bolts.  I told him to come dig through my bolt box. 

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1 minute ago, jeepwm69 said:

LOL.  My neighbor just broke those exact bolts off on his 02 350.  Asked if I had replacement bolts.  I told him to come dig through my bolt box. 

I've broke many of them..my bud always tells me..your just being to hard on them when trying to remove them ?..ahhh...no !!..lol. it you notice when looking at the bottom of the bolt, you will see they corrode over !..every one I've broken always snap off right at the freaking bottom on the lower engine case !. now ya have to try very hard to drill them out, and keep it centered ?!..lol. I hate the trx350 ranchers for this very reason, as well as the shift drum snapping off at the back where the gear position switch is !. honda came out with the upgraded version shift drum..cool, but ya gotta split the motor in order to replace it !...lol.

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You jinked me by talking about bad holes , I just snapped off one of the brake master cylinder cover screws  on my wife's 300 , it was sticking up enough to grab it with small vise grips and it twisted off again , then I drilled it out and retapped it right  down the middle  , and found another good screw on a parts master  , which was all pretty lucky 

 

I have drilled and tap the little bolts at the bottom of the jug a couple of times now , once on my 450  ,  I did it with the engine on the frame with a 90 degree gizmo thing for a drill 

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34 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

You jinked me by talking about bad holes , I just snapped off one of the brake master cylinder cover screws  on my wife's 300 , it was sticking up enough to grab it with small vise grips and it twisted off again , then I drilled it out and retapped it right  down the middle  , and found another good screw on a parts master  , which was all pretty lucky 

 

I have drilled and tap the little bolts at the bottom of the jug a couple of times now , once on my 450  ,  I did it with the engine on the frame with a 90 degree gizmo thing for a drill 

I got some JIS driver bits, only to discover that they don't fit my bit driver.....quite a bit bigger.  Now I gotta get another set of bits, or the proper bit driver.

 

But yeah, those MC screws suck.  They always strip/ snap off.  I've discovered that putting a driver in the screw and rapping it with a hammer a time or two will usually break them loose and let them come on out.

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in case no one knows or not ?, you can go on ebay or go to lowes ( not sure about lowes..just what I was told ? ), but on ebay, you can buy a set of stainless steel allen head screws for motorcycles brake or clutch ( if ya got hydraulic clutch ? ) replacement cover screws, easy to use, will never rust like the oem screws honda uses in their caps !. 

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Did not have a particularly productive morning today.

 

Got the 07 motor stripped down the rest of the way, and put the cases in the parts washer to soak. 

 

Got the crank out, polished out the galling in the top end of the rod, and of course, it ended up being shot, so it's going to have to be sent to Vince.  Went ahead and removed the rear crank bearing.

 

Picture of the old 05-08 low/1st gear in these 500's.  This one actually didn't look bad, but the updated gearset is $65ish, so not worth risking putting it back in, only to have to tear the whole thing down again, so new gearset will be installed.

 

The inside of this motor actually looked pretty good.  Was pretty clean other than the piston bits in the bottom, but when I went over the front cover (remove oil oil filter, clean everything well in solvent, and make sure the clutch adjuster was free) I found the oil filter was installed backwards.  Guess that's what killed this one.   At that point I'd done what I could do until I get a crank back from Vince (I sent the one off that I took out of the 2011 bottom end at the start of the thread).

 

Then my ADD kicked in.  I didn't have time to get into another engine, and have the innards from this one nicely laid out to ease reassembly, so don't want to intermingle another engine worth of parts.

 

So I picked up what I'd thought was a 300 diff, figured I'd get the pinion bearing out of it with the intention of putting a rebuild kit/gears in it and selling it.

 

Pinion socket didn't fit.  Looked at it again, and it's not a 300 diff.  Must be an 07-13 420 diff.  No idea where it came from.  Pinion gear is seized, and ring gear is missing.  I spent 30 mins or so working on that clip on the pinion bearing.  Finally got an end pried up, but couldn't get a firm enough grip on it with needle noses to pull it out.  Had to quit and get in to get ready for work. 

 

A few minutes ago I started looking into 420 diff stuff.  Looks like putting a new ring gear, bearings, and seals in this one will far exceed the value of it when would be through with it, so that time and effort this morning spent trying to get that clip out was totally wasted. 

 

I'll put it in the "I might need that someday" pile out at the farm shop.

07 bottom.JPG

0508 gear.JPG

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22 hours ago, shadetree said:

in case no one knows or not ?, you can go on ebay or go to lowes ( not sure about lowes..just what I was told ? ), but on ebay, you can buy a set of stainless steel allen head screws for motorcycles brake or clutch ( if ya got hydraulic clutch ? ) replacement cover screws, easy to use, will never rust like the oem screws honda uses in their caps !. 

 

Not to go too far back, but I'm surprised no one mentioned using anti (regular, or high temp) seize.... Lube ... As for me?? I went with oem looking stainless screws... I'm all about detail on the project 300. Blame it on my OCD ... Lol 

image.jpg

image.jpg

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3 hours ago, _Wilson_™ said:

 

Not to go too far back, but I'm surprised no one mentioned using anti (regular, or high temp) seize.... Lube ... As for me?? I went with oem looking stainless screws... I'm all about detail on the project 300. Blame it on my OCD ... Lol 

image.jpg

image.jpg

still a screw, they will strip the heads out, unlike allen head screws.

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I went with oem looking stainless screws... I'm all about detail on the project 300.

 

Pick pick.... Lol, and stainless is much less likely to seize up. 

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Round two.  This one is still the 07.  Got my rebuilt crank back from Vince yesterday afternoon.  Mailed it last Thursday, had it back in hand in less than a week!

 

Pressed the crank in with the balancer shaft.

 

 

crank.JPG

 

Splitting cases always freaks people out.  The transmission is a little complicated getting it together right, but you can look at the schematics and see what goes where.  Most of the gears are held onto the shafts with circilps and they're pretty much designed where if you put it in wrong the teeth will bind up.

 

Transmission gears laid out on the bench

 

transmission.JPG

 

Shift forks are marked FR (Front), C (Center) and R (Rear).

 

shift forks.JPG

 

Slide the transmission shafts into place (don't forget to check for thrust washers!), then slide the shift forks into the corresponding slots in the transmission gears (rear goes to the top cluster, center and front go to the cluster on the right), then slide the shift drum in, and align the posts on the shift forks with the proper slots in the drum (again, only one way they'll fit). 

 

 

drum.JPG

 

Then tweak it around until you can slide the shaft in that the shift forks slide on.

 

 

drum2.JPG

Note the hole in the spacer, and the hole in the end of the crankshaft.  Some people say this doesn't matter, but I always line them up.

 

 

hole.JPG

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Got the transmission, shift drum and forks, crank, and balancer installed.  Not pictured is the shift shaft, which slides in that spot at 5 o'clock relative to the shift drum.

 

bottom.JPG

 

Almost forgot the screen! 

 

 

screen.JPG

Got the cases buttoned up, and the back side reinstalled (secondary gears, reverse lockout shaft/ flywheel, and starter gears.


 

rear.JPG

 

Also, as always, installed shifter seal, front output seal, reverse lockout seal, rear crank seal, and rear output seal.  Again, cheap, and much easier to do with the cases on the bench.

 

Had to stop here, go in and feed the baby, and get to my day job.

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i wonder why you mentioned the thrust washers ??..( sigh )...lol.

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Tore down two more 500 motors this morning.  One was an 07 ES I bought for parts, and the other one was the 06 motor I just took out of my buddy's bike that had a blown first gear.

 

His engine was fine other than 1st gear, so I cleaned out his bottom end, put a new low/1st gearset in, and will reassemble it as an ES motor to go in this yellow one I bought to fix and flip.

 

The crank was bad in the ES motor, so it's off to Vince for a rebuild.  When I get it back, I'll put a footshift motor together and swap it into my 09 that needs a crank.

 

Playing musical chairs, except with motors.  LOL

 

Here are the two first gears out of these two engines.  The one on the right was out of my buddy's and it pop pop pop when in first.  You can see the worn dogs on the gear.  The other one looks better, but it's still getting tossed and replaced with the upgraded/ stronger 09-11 gears which have 6 dogs instead of 4.  Not risking a wasted rebuild over a $60 gearset. 

 

low.JPG

My buddy's 06 motor.  This thing was NASTY.  Can you say multiple oil leaks?  Ran fine though. 

 

woobs.JPG

woobs2.JPG

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5 minutes ago, jeepwm69 said:

Tore down two more 500 motors this morning.  One was an 07 ES I bought for parts, and the other one was the 06 motor I just took out of my buddy's bike that had a blown first gear.

 

His engine was fine other than 1st gear, so I cleaned out his bottom end, put a new low/1st gearset in, and will reassemble it as an ES motor to go in this yellow one I bought to fix and flip.

 

The crank was bad in the ES motor, so it's off to Vince for a rebuild.  When I get it back, I'll put a footshift motor together and swap it into my 09 that needs a crank.

 

Playing musical chairs, except with motors.  LOL

 

Here are the two first gears out of these two engines.  The one on the right was out of my buddy's and it pop pop pop when in first.  You can see the worn dogs on the gear.  The other one looks better, but it's still getting tossed and replaced with the upgraded/ stronger 09-11 gears which have 6 dogs instead of 4.  Not risking a wasted rebuild over a $60 gearset. 

 

low.JPG

My buddy's 06 motor.  This thing was NASTY.  Can you say multiple oil leaks?  Ran fine though. 

 

woobs.JPG

woobs2.JPG

rofl, more like..multi mud leaking if ya ask me !..lol.

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1 minute ago, shadetree said:

rofl, more like..multi mud leaking if ya ask me !..lol.

 

LOL.  Oil leaked out, dirt stuck to it, and you end up with a wooly motor.

 

This one will get cleaned up.  Probably not to your standards, but I'm going to get all that crap off of it.

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1 minute ago, jeepwm69 said:

 

LOL.  Oil leaked out, dirt stuck to it, and you end up with a wooly motor.

 

This one will get cleaned up.  Probably not to your standards, but I'm going to get all that crap off of it.

don't know what you use to clean with ?, but i find '' super clean '' from wally world does great !. if ya got a pressure washer ?, hit it with that, followed with super clean, it will take all that oil off fast !. ( alittle brushing will be needed ), but works !.

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16 minutes ago, shadetree said:

don't know what you use to clean with ?, but i find '' super clean '' from wally world does great !. if ya got a pressure washer ?, hit it with that, followed with super clean, it will take all that oil off fast !. ( alittle brushing will be needed ), but works !.

 

I'll try it!  I already need to clean the fluid in my parts washer, and decided this is too disgusting to go in there.  I'm going to hit it with a pressure washer and a brush, and I'll try that super clean. 

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5 minutes ago, jeepwm69 said:

 

I'll try it!  I already need to clean the fluid in my parts washer, and decided this is too disgusting to go in there.  I'm going to hit it with a pressure washer and a brush, and I'll try that super clean. 

CAUTION!!..the super clean is acid based !, be very careful about using it with bare hands !..lol. your suppose to dilute it ?, but i use it right out of the gallon jug..lol.

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i use that super clean on ALL my nasty engines, and i wont use anything else !. i've tried them all !, nothing touches these oily, muddy, greasy engines like super clean does !. removes orange mud stains as well, but will leave it kinda dark gray from oxidation ?, then i buff them..but you wont do that, so a good rinse of water will do just fine !. 

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Have you ever had the skin peel on your hands from degreaser getting all over them , I have , ain't good ----

 

I agree I would not put that dirty engine in my parts cleaner after doing the outside in it , I would have to change the fluid ,  cause I wouldn't want to do the inside parts of the engine  in the same washer fluid ,  so what I would do with something as cruddy as that engine , one of two things , either  do a dry clean first , wire brush , scrapper and a blow gun to get the majority of it off , then some diesel in a pan with a brush , then degreaser , or power wash it , then degrease it 

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Got the 07 bottom end of the ES built motor back together this morning.  New crank, timing chain, lower end seals, and upgraded the 1st gear to the newer style.

 

Putting two more cranks in the mail to Vince at Mr Cranshaft after lunch.

 

Cleaned up a freshly bored cylinder with new Shindy piston, which I'll put on in the morning with a new top end gasket set, and then hopefully I'll be able to get it installed in that yellow Foreman this weekend, if it doesn't rain all weekend.

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Got the cylinder and piston installed, and then had to drill, tap, and helicoil one of the valve cover bolts in the head.  I HATE having to do that kinda thing.

 

Drilling/ tapping took most of my working time this morning.

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2 hours ago, jeepwm69 said:

Got the cylinder and piston installed, and then had to drill, tap, and helicoil one of the valve cover bolts in the head.  I HATE having to do that kinda thing.

 

Drilling/ tapping took most of my working time this morning.

you do know we want to see pic's !, or it did not happen !..lol.

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Is there one kit that has all the gaskets and seals I will need for this job.

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