How to properly prep your Honda ES shift system

[WonderMonkey 715]

I'm getting ready to go to the parts store to pick up supplies to do this PM.  In the photo, Retro states that "most" of the things are used, but I want to make sure I'm buying the right version of things.

 

For the Silicone Gasket Maker used, it appears as if the "Ultra Grey Rigid High-Torque RTV Silicone Gasket Maker" is silicone and the "Permatex Ultra Grey Rigid High-Torque RTV Silicone Gasket Maker" is NOT, correct?  Also, I don't see that the "Permatex Ultra Grey Rigid High-Torque RTV Silicone Gasket Maker" is used at all, so I won't buy that.  Just want to know if I'm reading that right.

 

Also, no mention of needing to use the "3M Black Super Weatherstrip Adhesive", or the "Silicone O-Ring & Valve Lubricant / Grease " is that also correct or did I miss that somewhere?

 

FYI I'm going to film this so I will be walking through it very slowly.  I figure if I film it and get it right, others may benefit.

Edited January 16, 2021 by WonderMonkey

[retro 4,048]

I use Permatex Ultra Black gasket maker (says nothing about being for "rigid" parts on the tube) but any automotive oil-resistant RTV will work. Ultra Grey remains soft (there are two different grades) so I use that sometimes. I don't use the weatherstrip adhesive except to seal up a harness sheath if necessary. O-ring grease can used in place of the Ultra black in cases where the ATV will not ever be submerged or shot with a pressure washer. Whatever ya decide to use.... use it very sparingly. A thin film of Ultra black on o-rings and gaskets are all thats needed to waterproof clean & dry parts. If you can see your sealers squirting out anywhere during assembly of parts, you've applied way too much. 🙂

[WonderMonkey 715]

55 minutes ago, retro said:

I use Permatex Ultra Black gasket maker (says nothing about being for "rigid" parts on the tube) but any automotive oil-resistant RTV will work. Ultra Grey remains soft (there are two different grades) so I use that sometimes. I don't use the weatherstrip adhesive except to seal up a harness sheath if necessary. O-ring grease can used in place of the Ultra black in cases where the ATV will not ever be submerged or shot with a pressure washer. Whatever ya decide to use.... use it very sparingly. A thin film of Ultra black on o-rings and gaskets are all thats needed to waterproof clean & dry parts. If you can see your sealers squirting out anywhere during assembly of parts, you've applied way too much. 🙂

 

Thanks!  I appreciate the answer and the tip on how much to use.  I'll use the Ultra Black to be extra sure on the submersion or the pressure washer.  I don't HOPE to be submerged, but you never know.

 

I did go get some of the items already.  I had exact brand and title of the items I needed and of course, they didn't have some of them but had alternates.  Luckily, at the next place I was able to complete my item list.

[Jemmons467 179]

@WonderMonkey while you are at it I would also recommended going through EVERY connection on your machine, I used QD Electronic Cleaner to clean them and then the dielectric grease. 

 

[Tim-ANC 202]

I bought a 2020 TRX420FA6 DCT for my autistic son last year. He burns up foot shifters. Does this preventive maintenance apply?

[retro 4,048]

No the DCT is an entirely different system, but waterproofing the electrical system by opening every harness connector on the bike for dielectric grease still applies, as all Honda ATVs are not waterproofed by the factory.

[retro 4,048]

2 hours ago, freebo86 said:

would it be recommended to maybe suggest in the first post that something like Permatex MotoSeal, Ultra Black or Ultra Grey be used on the armature portion to seal it tight? I’m thinking whatever motor I sourced next, I’m going to seal it with one of those for added protection. Maybe the silicone grease on the o-ring isn’t enough?

 

Thanks for those shift motor pics freebo86! That is a shift motor that have never been apart. Fishfiles rides in deep water so he prefers to ride foot shift models. Fishfiles has no use for used ES motors that he collects with parts bike purchases, that's why that motor were a freebie. :-)

 

To find the answer to your question (suggestion) concerning sealers, read on.....

 

The ES system prep tutorial attempts to identify & correct all of the ES faults that exist from the factory as stated in the opening paragraph. Waterproofing is at the top of the list:

 

On 4/13/2020 at 3:21 PM, retro said:

These ES preps are a one-time routine maintenance procedure. By following this guide thoroughly and completely several problems that Honda created at the factory will be solved. Among those ES faults are:

• Honda ES systems are not waterproofed, neither electrically or mechanically
• Honda uses the wrong type of grease in their ES systems
• Honda uses insufficient amounts of grease in their ES systems (which is a good thing because the recommended grease itself is garbage)
• Due to excessive friction in stock ES systems reliability is non-existent, battery current required for operation is ridiculously high and the ECM is at risk for burning out

 

An unprepared shift motor takes on water whenever it becomes submerged or is pressure washed by the ATV owner. Over time that small amount of water inside the shift motor rusts the permanent magnets housing and the glued in Ferrite magnets come loose from the metal, due to a layer of rust forming between the magnet glue & the housing.

 

It is absolutely imperative that all Honda ES owners prep their new ATV as soon as it arrives from the Honda dealer! All used ES systems must be prepped immediately by the ATV owner as well.

 

Inside the ES prep tutorial the preparer is urged to apply a thin Silicone gasket maker film on each of the gaskets & o-rings throughout the system. Shown in the list of materials required photo are both Ultra Black and Ultra Grey gasket makers. I personally prefer Ultra Black for sealing shift motors, but either product works just fine. The shift motor sealing step is thus covered in the shift motor reassembly:

 

On 4/13/2020 at 3:21 PM, retro said:

Repack the ball bearing on the end of the armature with synthetic grease by pushing grease inside the bearing past the gap in the metal shield. Add syn grease to the bronze bushing inside the magnets housing and wet the shaft where it fits into that bushing. Be careful not to get any grease on the armature outside of that bushing and shaft end. Put a small amount of grease inside the rubber seal lips in the nose of the motor to lubricate that seal.

 

Reassemble the brushes assembly. Coat the rubber gasket (o-ring on some models) liberally on both sides with silicone gasket maker. Depress the brush springs & brushes into their holders and place two small alligator clips (or bent pieces of wire) to hold those two brushes back so you can set the nose of the armature shaft down into the nose housing.

 

So, we have identified Honda ATV ES system faults and we have learned how to correct each one of them permanently. Some good gasket sealer products are shown as well. The problem remains though, that very few folks regard those ES preps as being imperative to long ES system life. Very few Honda owners actually follow the prep tutorial step by step to its completion. Some are lazy and don't even read the guide all of the way through... others only choose to perform one or two of the steps... while some have very poor working habits with short attention spans and cause more problems than is solved. :-)

 

We can lead horses to water, but we cannot force them to drink!

[freebo86 291]

33 minutes ago, retro said:

 

Thanks for those shift motor pics freebo86! That is a shift motor that have never been apart. Fishfiles rides in deep water so he prefers to ride foot shift models. Fishfiles has no use for used ES motors that he collects with parts bike purchases, that's why that motor were a freebie. 🙂

 

To find the answer to your question (suggestion) concerning sealers, read on.....

 

The ES system prep tutorial attempts to identify & correct all of the ES faults that exist from the factory as stated in the opening paragraph. Waterproofing is at the top of the list:

 

 

An unprepared shift motor takes on water whenever it becomes submerged or is pressure washed by the ATV owner. Over time that small amount of water inside the shift motor rusts the permanent magnets housing and the glued in Ferrite magnets come loose from the metal, due to a layer of rust forming between the magnet glue & the housing.

 

It is absolutely imperative that all Honda ES owners prep their new ATV as soon as it arrives from the Honda dealer! All used ES systems must be prepped immediately by the ATV owner as well.

 

Inside the ES prep tutorial the preparer is urged to apply a thin Silicone gasket maker film on each of the gaskets & o-rings throughout the system. Shown in the list of materials required photo are both Ultra Black and Ultra Grey gasket makers. I personally prefer Ultra Black for sealing shift motors, but either product works just fine. The shift motor sealing step is thus covered in the shift motor reassembly:

 

 

So, we have identified Honda ATV ES system faults and we have learned how to correct each one of them permanently. Some good gasket sealer products are shown as well. The problem remains though, that very few folks regard those ES preps as being imperative to long ES system life. Very few Honda owners actually follow the prep tutorial step by step to its completion. Some are lazy and don't even read the guide all of the way through... others only choose to perform one or two of the steps... while some have very poor working habits with short attention spans and cause more problems than is solved. 🙂

 

We can lead horses to water, but we cannot force them to drink!

Good info. So what part of that motor do you suggest gets RTVed? The armature housing only? Or both, armature housing to gear housing and then gear housing to the front crank case cover?

[retro 4,048]

12 minutes ago, freebo86 said:

So what part of that motor do you suggest gets RTVed? The armature housing only? Or both, armature housing to gear housing and then gear housing to the front crank case cover?

 

All of those joints, of course! The shift motor has an o-ring on its nose that seals inside the reduction gears housing. Take that o-ring off of the nose, coat it with a film of gasket maker and put it back while bolting the motor assembly back on. The reduction gears cover has a rubber ring gasket on it as well. Take that out of the cover (be careful, don't stretch it while taking it out of the groove in the cover) & wet it down with sealer before bolting that cover back on. The Angle Sensor has a rubber o-ring on it that needs to be removed & wetted with sealer too. Make sure that ya pack syn grease inside the armature shaft seal lips during shift motor assembly to keep that oil seal alive for decades.

[freebo86 291]

2 minutes ago, retro said:

 

All of those joints, of course! The shift motor has an o-ring on its nose that seals inside the reduction gears housing. Take that o-ring off of the nose, coat it with a film of gasket maker and put it back while bolting the motor assembly back on. The reduction gears cover has a rubber ring gasket on it as well. Take that out of the cover & wet it down with sealer before bolting that cover back on. The Angle Sensor has a rubber o-ring on it that needs to be removed & wetted with sealer too. Make sure that ya pack syn grease inside the armature shaft seal lips during shift motor assembly to keep that oil seal alive for decades.

Ok so you apply the RTV right on the o ring. Makes sense. 
 

But are you referring to as the armature shaft seal? Is it that black ring that’s evident in my photos?

[retro 4,048]

The armature shaft seal is located in the nose of the shift motor next to the armature ball bearing. Pack them both with syn grease.

 

General info that applies to all lipped seals:

All dust/oil seals that are designed with a lip in them that run on rotating shafts must be packed with grease in the area between the inner & outer lips of the seal. Grease provides lubrication for the rubber seal lips and grease cools the rubber while rotating shafts spin inside them, creating friction & heat. This rule applies to all lipped seal types regardless of where they are used (internal motor/transmission or external case seals). Failure to pack lipped seals with grease before installation results in an early failure of the seal. Sometimes they get ruined in just a minute in high RPM applications, if installed dry.

[THH 295]

Excellent write up retro!!

[freebo86 291]

@retro so when you say sealer what are you referring to? Gasket maker? Some sort of o-ring lubricant? 
 

The angle sensor, you put gasket maker on its face as you mate it back to the gear housing? Or you put sealer around the o ring that’s just inside the angle sensor?
 

 

[retro 4,048]

1 hour ago, freebo86 said:

so when you say sealer what are you referring to? Gasket maker?

 

Yup!!!!

 

1 hour ago, freebo86 said:

The angle sensor, you put gasket maker on its face as you mate it back to the gear housing? Or you put sealer around the o ring that’s just inside the angle sensor?

 

Just take the o-ring off, wet it with gasket maker and put it back on the Angle Sensor to insure it seals permanently until you take it apart again, if ever..

 

I'll share another lil' trick with ya though, that works everywhere. Smear a thin film of Ultra Black on bolt threads before ya bolt parts down to prevent bolts from rusting, or seizing in the aluminum cases, or loosening up & falling out. They come right out with a socket or a wrench, but will never loosen on their own due to vibration, and won't ever rust.  🙂

[Quadjunkie 37]

Subscribed.

My 04 450 ES is starting to act up when the outside temps drop. It's about 21 degrees now and I'm having trouble shifting into R. after the quad sits outside for a few hours.

Could it possibly be the angle sensor?

[Fishfiles 20,145]

45 minutes ago, Quadjunkie said:

Subscribed.

My 04 450 ES is starting to act up when the outside temps drop. It's about 21 degrees now and I'm having trouble shifting into R. after the quad sits outside for a few hours.

Could it possibly be the angle sensor?

Quad' , did you ever do the cleaning and regreasing of the shift motor shaft 

[Quadjunkie 37]

No I've been blowing it off. 

[Fishfiles 20,145]

Since you say cold has makes it happen , the grease might be getting hard or maybe water condensation freezing up 

[Quadjunkie 37]

Ok, I thought it might be the case. Thanks.

[JTRacing 3]

I just bought this same bike for my son and also have the ES on my Rancher 400 and Rincon 650 so this is incredibly helpful and very appreciated. Because it's so expensive and takes weeks to months to get any service done on ATV's here in Florida, I'm teaching myself to be an ATV mechanic. One job, project, video, and post at a time. And this seems to be a popular problem so I am very thankful that you posted this. 

[weekender7 1]

I think this is the best and most useful thread I have read about my 500 ES.

[Fishfiles 20,145]

1 hour ago, weekender7 said:

I think this is the best and most useful thread I have read about my 500 ES.

 

 

Retro is the man !!! 

[GraveLizard 4]

Worked through this thread today and completed in entirety. Wanted to share pictures of my hardened grease for others to see since I have only read about it and not actually seen it. 2001 450es with 1100 miles. I have never heard it shift like it does now, wow!! Thank you all. 
 

I did lose a spring, spent 30 minutes on the floor trying to find it to no avail… Snagged one out of a pen and trimmed it to size, worked like a charm. Also found a cheat for getting motor housing on without losing springs if anyone is interested in the future.  

[660catman 13]

This is quite the “how to” post on the ES system. I currently have issues with a 99 450ES shift buttons not working. This will be on my list of to do items once I go through the test procedures.

 

[Fishfiles 20,145]

8 minutes ago, 660catman said:

This is quite the “how to” post on the ES system. I currently have issues with a 99 450ES shift buttons not working. This will be on my list of to do items once I go through the test procedures.

 

Retro’s “ how to “ thread has helped many of ES  riders with problems.