98 Foreman 450S....Still not found issue

[shadetree 5,864]

25 minutes ago, 87Iroc said:

Per your question on the phone @shadetree...all but 1 seal is Made in Japan on this. ONe small seal says 'made in China' on it. All bearings say Japan.

yeah...i kinda figured you would end of with a china seal..lol.

[87Iroc 344]

Well, we'll see how this works out. Going through the order. I was missing a few ball bearings I wasn't expecting. Tracked down all but 1 of them. I think I accidently removed it and left the rear shift drum bearing in the cart. DOH. So now I'm not on order with the rear mainshaft bearing(one that was stiff to turn and RM shows no availability). 

 

Called a local powersports place that I bought Yamabond from this morning. Said their supplier has some of both bearings(I went ahead and ordered the one RM has on backorder I'm waiting on a ship date for...supposed to be next week)  in stock and price is better/same as Rocky Mountain price. Said 2-3 days. 

 

If this works out, I can see talking to them more often.

 

Place has gotta be good. They sell Honda/Suzuki/Polaris ATVs and motorcypcles....but also also are an authorized dealer for Bush Hog. 

Edited July 31, 2020 by 87Iroc

[_Wilson_™ 6,566]

2 hours ago, 87Iroc said:

Any special instructions on driving in new bearings? I have a bearing/seal driver kit.  

 

i found in certain jobs .... placing the oil coated bearings in a freezer works. .... but.... never heard of anyone doing this with a honda atv engine... just tossing that out there....

[87Iroc 344]

Rocky Mountain ATV rocks. All of their stuff has arrived and beat their estimate of delivery.

 

Partzilla shipment was delivered Friday which is awesome for them...but it was delivered to some address 20 miles away. Signed for and left at reception. No idea where or who. Partzilla had my address right(4th shipment from them).

 

Thinking UPS dropped the ball. And now their claims website is unresponsive.

 

ARGH! 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2020 by 87Iroc

[Fishfiles 20,145]

UPS , kind of cool when I go by the main hub , just when all the trucks are leaving at the same time , I have been riding along and there are 12 trucks across all the lanes of I-10 ,then  every exit , one or two get off , the herd keeps getting smaller till they all disappear 

[_Wilson_™ 6,566]

45 minutes ago, 87Iroc said:

Signed for and left at reception

 

oh man.... that's just bad .... i would be contacting partszilla ... and ups ... till i got an answer!.....if you gave them the right address, there completely responsible. ... hopefully when the person who signed for it sees the contents they will do the right thing, and contact .. ups, or partszilla. 

[87Iroc 344]

I'm hoping they hand it back to the delivery driver tomorrow(it was delivered Friday) and they look and say 'oh'...then its back on track. I successfully filed a claim with UPS and sent Partzilla a note. Hoping it gets sorted(Either UPS finds it or Partzilla drop ships a new one) and I don't have to call local powersports place and see if they can get that one too. Little worried they'll hand me non-honda bearings anyway on other 2 I asked them for. 

[87Iroc 344]

Oh, as an update on the crankshaft. I didn't end up getting a new one. I got queezy about the money I'm pouring out after the ebay guy declined my offer(after 23 hrs of it in his inbox). I decided to let him keep them and I sent it to Vince at Mr Crankshaft. He had it  inspected(Said the big end of rod was surprisingly fine, small end was a bit bigger than he would like to see) and pulled rear bearing for me...put it back together in less than 36 hrs and its on its way back to me. Should be here tomorrow or Tuesday(I shipped it Wednesday of this past week). 

 

His take on the crank was there was nothing wrong with it that would have caused the issues of binding I was seeing. He did say the bearing, when pulled, didn't feel right and not use it....but I suspect that was due to pulling it. I have a new one on the table here so that's why I had him pull it off.

[87Iroc 344]

25 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

UPS , kind of cool when I go by the main hub , just when all the trucks are leaving at the same time , I have been riding along and there are 12 trucks across all the lanes of I-10 ,then  every exit , one or two get off , the herd keeps getting smaller till they all disappear 

saw this in northern Indiana last week. Amazon is all over up here now  

[87Iroc 344]

This normal on oil pump? Feels like it’s had debris thru it.  Which for a 22 yr old bike woul md be surprising if it didn’t. Rear face plate has similar marks.  Faces of rotor look good though

Edited August 3, 2020 by 87Iroc

[87Iroc 344]

Another question.  Springs on clutch pack are just at or slightly below service limit. Bushing od is just slightly above limit.  Plan is to replace at least springs. Clutch cage looks like this.  I assume normal. And should springs behind clutch drum shown rattle? The ones inside gear.  

Edited August 3, 2020 by 87Iroc

[Fishfiles 20,145]

42 minutes ago, 87Iroc said:

Another question.  Springs on clutch pack are just at or slightly below service limit. Bushing od is just slightly above limit.  Plan is to replace at least springs. Clutch cage looks like this.  I assume normal. And should springs behind clutch drum shown rattle? The ones inside gear.  

Yes the spring will rattle around on the back side of the clutch housing --------  if you buy a EBC clutch kit you can get one with new springs , those springs are heavy duty , I find it makes it harder to shift on your foot  

[shadetree 5,864]

1 hour ago, 87Iroc said:

This normal on oil pump? Feels like it’s had debris thru it.  Which for a 22 yr old bike woul md be surprising if it didn’t. Rear face plate has similar marks.  Faces of rotor look good though

oil pump is trashed !!!. you need to very closely inspect all of your engine, and engine parts for metal !.

[87Iroc 344]

7 minutes ago, shadetree said:

oil pump is trashed !!!. you need to very closely inspect all of your engine, and engine parts for metal !.

 

 

Ugh. OK. I'll take a look at the bushings. I measured them and they meet spec. I'll look for grooves in them from debris. I had all of them in my fingers this evening and they looked OK. Haven't seen any other signs of debris yet but will look closer.

[shadetree 5,864]

be sure to clean/flush out the oil cooler very well !.

[_Wilson_™ 6,566]

you had mentioned further back in the thread the oil was in backwards..... and your the 3rd owner of this honda.... so I'm thinking that's the issue, especially ... with clear damage to the oil pump, along with the metal chips seen ... so... I'm with shade.... there's only one exact way to get all that mess out, and crack, and flush it / clean it. . by now i would be thinking about turning this over to shade ... before you put any more money, or new parts in. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by _Wilson_™

[shadetree 5,864]

26 minutes ago, _Wilson_™ said:

you had mentioned further back in the thread the oil was in backwards..... and your the 3rd owner of this honda.... so I'm thinking that's the issue, especially ... with clear damage to the oil pump, along with the metal chips seen ... so... I'm with shade.... there's only one exact way to get all that mess out, and crack, and flush it / clean it. . by now i would be thinking about turning this over to shade ... before you put any more money, or new parts in. 

he's already got the cases split, and no, his oil filter was not in backwards as he first thought ?. pretty sure he has it under control, does not need me...yet !..lol. 

[_Wilson_™ 6,566]

thank you shade ... i missed the part where the oil filter was ruled out.  

[87Iroc 344]

I am just inspecting parts while I wait on bearings and deal with ups fiasco.  Pulled open oil pump as in my world you always replace the pump. surprised how little info manual gives on what to look for.  
 

yes...it was thankfully a false alarm on oil filter.  

 

 

 

[400exdad 16]

I know I’m late to the party here, but just read the entire post (both) and like everyone else, I have opinions on it. I know you can finish this build up yourself and have it run great. They are really simple once you get into them and see how everything works together. If it were me doing a rebuild like this on a 22 year old machine, I would replace every single seal and bearing there is on the motor. I know it is a bit on the expensive side to do it, but for me, it would be a combination of insurance and peace of mind. Yes, some of them may feel like they roll fine, but may either be close to the wear limits, or have just enough wear or problems that you cannot feel or see to cause a problem in the future. If the originals lasted this long, with unknown abuse prior to you taking ownership, then this motor should last another 20+ years if you do this now all at once. Consider all the hours you are putting into this now just to figure out what issues you have. By skimping on some wear items now, you may be doing this all over again in a year or so, wasting just as much time as you are now. I would do the same with the valves, springs, guides, etc. It may be overkill, but for me it would be worth it. It’s apart now, do it all at once and be done with it. 

[87Iroc 344]

28 minutes ago, 400exdad said:

I know I’m late to the party here, but just read the entire post (both) and like everyone else, I have opinions on it. I know you can finish this build up yourself and have it run great. They are really simple once you get into them and see how everything works together. If it were me doing a rebuild like this on a 22 year old machine, I would replace every single seal and bearing there is on the motor. I know it is a bit on the expensive side to do it, but for me, it would be a combination of insurance and peace of mind. Yes, some of them may feel like they roll fine, but may either be close to the wear limits, or have just enough wear or problems that you cannot feel or see to cause a problem in the future. If the originals lasted this long, with unknown abuse prior to you taking ownership, then this motor should last another 20+ years if you do this now all at once. Consider all the hours you are putting into this now just to figure out what issues you have. By skimping on some wear items now, you may be doing this all over again in a year or so, wasting just as much time as you are now. I would do the same with the valves, springs, guides, etc. It may be overkill, but for me it would be worth it. It’s apart now, do it all at once and be done with it. 

 

Thanks for the input. 

 

All of the bearings that carry load will be replaced when this is all done. The seals are here as well. I was arguing with myself on the seals as they aren't leaking but then when I cracked open the case it only made sense to go 'all the way' with wear items. I have learned so much its crazy. 6 months ago the inside of a motorcycle type engine case was a real mystery. 

 

The head is tired, very tired. Exhaust guide is worn out. I keep looking at it and thinking about what I want to do with it. If I didn't put any new parts in it right now. All bearings, seals, o-rings, Crank/Rod, and Piston/Ring would be new on this. So 'short block' in my car world would be essentially new. The head is still up in the air. Its serviceable but will need attention in the next couple years if I don't touch it now.

 

 

[jeepwm69 7,605]

Check out powersportsnation.com.  Their prices have gone up a bit recently, but OEM prices have jumped through the roof lately.  PSN sells used parts, and they stand behind what they sell.  They have an 02 450 on the list of bikes they bought recently, so might be able to get a good used oil pump at a decent price from them.

[87Iroc 344]

2 hours ago, jeepwm69 said:

ersportsnation.com.  Their prices have gone up a bit recently, but OEM prices have jumped through the roof lately.  PSN sells used parts, and they stand behind what they sell.  They have an 02 450 on the list of bikes they bought recently, so might be able to get a good used oil pump at a decent price from them.

 

Sweet

 

Yes. Placed my first order with them last night to try them out. I've been keeping an eye on their parts for hard to find stuff I need.  I get their emails but don't read them as often as I likely should.

[Fishfiles 20,145]

2 hours ago, jeepwm69 said:

Check out powersportsnation.com.  Their prices have gone up a bit recently, but OEM prices have jumped through the roof lately.  PSN sells used parts, and they stand behind what they sell.  They have an 02 450 on the list of bikes they bought recently, so might be able to get a good used oil pump at a decent price from them.

Jeep , is this 87Iroc guy ok ?   Giving all our secrets , eh.  Lol.

 

i might have one that is in good shape.  

[87Iroc 344]

2 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

Jeep , is this 87Iroc guy ok ?   Giving all our secrets , eh.  Lol.

 

i might have one that is in good shape.  

 

 

Shadetree took a shine to me early(between chewing me out for stupid comments) and told me about it. 🙂 

 

You might have a head in good shape? If so, I'd obviously be interested...but don't want to take any spares away from you you may need for your machines in the future.

 

UPS threw up their hands on the lost bearing and are just approved reimbursement. So I ordered the bearing from my local powersports shop. Hopefully still get it this week.

Edited August 3, 2020 by 87Iroc