shadetree 5,864 Posted July 24, 2020 2 hours ago, 87Iroc said: Pile of parts is impressive. haha...can't wait until you bring me all that mess, and have me build you a running engine !!..lol. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
87Iroc 344 Posted July 24, 2020 (edited) I have it sitting here with very little left before I can split cases. Mainly clutches and cam. I have spun it over a bunch and bearings and whatever else spins in neutral make a soft sound as it goes around and there may be .001” of play at a certain point in crank rotation but it sure all feels tight. I have wiggled and wobbled the rod and it has some play in it but not near as much as what I think should cause a problem. (Crank guy said if you get above .1” of wobble in pin end when rocking rod on big end it’s shot. I have 0.032” which was below his like new rule of thumb number.) anyway. Getting ready to knock off for night but that’s what I’m seeing. Edited July 24, 2020 by 87Iroc 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
87Iroc 344 Posted July 25, 2020 I think this is another crank option.... https://www.ebay.com/itm/1999-Honda-TRX400FW-Foreman-Crankshaft-1058-32-13000-HN0-670/154007966504?epid=5017013412&hash=item23db971328:g:ZT8AAOSwtb1fDlqA:sc:USPSPriority!46032!US!-1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted July 25, 2020 Just thought of something ---- Do you know if that engine has a gear reduction in it ??? ----- one way to tell would be look at the primary gear and see if it is welded in the middle , there is only one builder that makes a one piece primary all others are welded , another way to tell would be if the clutch basket has bolts holding the gear to it or rivets ------ if it does have a reduction that was a bad job or is coming apart , then that could be your problem Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
87Iroc 344 Posted July 25, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Fishfiles said: Just thought of something ---- Do you know if that engine has a gear reduction in it ??? ----- one way to tell would be look at the primary gear and see if it is welded in the middle , there is only one builder that makes a one piece primary all others are welded , another way to tell would be if the clutch basket has bolts holding the gear to it or rivets ------ if it does have a reduction that was a bad job or is coming apart , then that could be your problem My assumption is its never been apart....but I really don't know what a gear reduction is. Or what the primary gear is. It sounds inside the case....but could I see it through the jug hole? I haven't pulled the clutch basket off, but can check for rivets or bolts when I do. OK. Looks like its under front cover....I'll take a look but my presumption is it hasn't been done https://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Foreman-27-5-Gear-Reduction-fits-400-and-450-/112688892281 Edited July 25, 2020 by 87Iroc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted July 25, 2020 So as far as you know , the guy you got it from was the original owner and the engine was never opened up before #1 is the clutch basket , the ring gear is riveted to it from the factory , when it has a reduction over 14.5% installed the rivets are drilled out , holes are threaded and another gear is bolted to the basket and the primary is changed , I got 2 450s , one has a 14.5% reduction ( TRX300 primary and clutch basket direct swop , no drilling rivets ) and the other has a 35% reduction ( which required drilling and using a TRX300EX clutch basket gear and a custom made primary and the crankcase has to be grinded to clear the bigger gear ) ------- there is a bit of a different engine sound with a reduction , some builders more than other , and if it were not welded together true , it could that being a scrapping sound Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
87Iroc 344 Posted July 25, 2020 I will look tomorrow. Thanks for the background! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
87Iroc 344 Posted July 25, 2020 Oh. And I think I am the third owner. First owner used and abused it judging from shape of skid plates. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted July 25, 2020 11 hours ago, 87Iroc said: Oh. And I think I am the third owner. First owner used and abused it judging from shape of skid plates. If the first owner had skid plates on it , makes me think he was hardcore , LOL Did you pulled the clutches yet and tried to rotate the engine with out the clutches to see if that bind and noise goes away , noises could be related to the clutches Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
87Iroc 344 Posted July 25, 2020 9 minutes ago, Fishfiles said: If the first owner had skid plates on it , makes me think he was hardcore , LOL Did you pulled the clutches yet and tried to rotate the engine with out the clutches to see if that bind and noise goes away , noises could be related to the clutches just factory skid plates are all banged up. And one on bottom of motor is bent up pretty bad. I have not. Will pull them tomorrow likely. Having family day as wife and daughter go back to school soon. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted July 25, 2020 Ok , I was thinking you were talking after market skid plates like this one that is under my 95 300 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
87Iroc 344 Posted July 25, 2020 Got a little 1” mic and did measurements on small end with some old cheap snap gauges I have. Haven’t pulled clutches yet.first job tomorrow. At this point I have just mentally told myself I’m splitting cases and putting a different crank/rod in. Too far in to it to put it back together and hope for best without finding a smoking gun. I can’t find anything obvious wrong anywhere(except pickup Sensor snafu) but will keep checking stuff as I tear it down. Possible that rear crank bearing is tired just hiding it well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
87Iroc 344 Posted July 25, 2020 (edited) Took family longer to get ready than I thought. Looks factory @Fishfiles Edited July 25, 2020 by 87Iroc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted July 25, 2020 59 minutes ago, 87Iroc said: Took family longer to get ready than I thought. Looks factory @Fishfiles True the rivets are there , still doesn't positively prove it is not been modified , haha , a TRX300Fourtrax clutch basket and primary will slip right into a 450 and make a14.5% reduction , tooth count would be the way to know that , but I think you are right ------ this would be a good time to juice things up , cheap and easy , LOL ---- was number 22 in the finche above , which is a shim/ spacer that rides behind the primary in place ? Wow , you got you some measurements there !!! , how does it spin with the clutches off ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
87Iroc 344 Posted July 25, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Fishfiles said: True the rivets are there , still doesn't positively prove it is not been modified , haha , a TRX300Fourtrax clutch basket and primary will slip right into a 450 and make a14.5% reduction , tooth count would be the way to know that , but I think you are right ------ this would be a good time to juice things up , cheap and easy , LOL ---- was number 22 in the finche above , which is a shim/ spacer that rides behind the primary in place ? Wow , you got you some measurements there !!! , how does it spin with the clutches off ? I haven’t tried with jug on it. The whole thing spun over super smooth with the jug off. I will do some more checking tomorrow though. I got a nice little pair of mics. Figured I’d use them. Lol. Never used snap gauges before but gave them a try is there any way that some of noise could be coming from trans? Gear rattle with rough low idling? I shook the clutch shaft back and forth some and a noise kind of emitted or hinted similar to noise we all heard. I had to dash away but will be checking on it tomorrow. Maybe post video. Possible something ain’t right in there too. what does under drive do? Takes away top end for low end pep? will check on shim tomorrow as well Edited July 25, 2020 by 87Iroc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
87Iroc 344 Posted July 26, 2020 (edited) ShiM was there. I took it down to just crank spinning. Spins over smooth as silk with only crank. Gets a bit harder now at bottom of stroke but it feels like coubterweights doing their job and not bearing binding. Put jug and no rings on it but oiled inside of cylinder and catching was mostly gone with very little sound as piston cycled. at this point I’m ready to split cases. Seeing joys of permatex usage inside. Lots of bits here and there. Keep in mind I have no clutches or anything on this but with motor shaking with low idle I think this was some of noise is this normal or should I expect to find some injury in transmission? Edited July 26, 2020 by 87Iroc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted July 26, 2020 I do like the way you are going about it , process of elimination ---- seems like " something " got a lot of slack in that video ...... what you thinking , I think , I think what I am thinking ...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
87Iroc 344 Posted July 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Fishfiles said: I do like the way you are going about it , process of elimination ---- seems like " something " got a lot of slack in that video ...... what you thinking , I think , I think what I am thinking ...... I am doing best I can. I’ve rebuilt a 6 spd trans before and several small blocks but this is first time messing with a atv. I have cases split and it’s happily resting on a little fixture I built. I see gears rattling but not sure if there’s a shift fork pad or something that disintegrated. Gotta get ready for work week And have a party to go to now but so far no smoking gun on bearings. All of them I spin feel fine. crank is out too. Several taps with a rubber mallet and it was in my hands. I made marks on balancer for lining back up. Crank is much smaller than I expected. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted July 26, 2020 Ya bearings look kind of back to me , but pics can be kind of deceiving Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted July 26, 2020 Black was the word I was looking for , been deep in it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
87Iroc 344 Posted July 26, 2020 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Fishfiles said: Ya bearings look kind of back to me , but pics can be kind of deceiving they do but it’s not heat it’s like Soot or something. I think it wipes off. There has been black rtv all over inside case as well. Not tons but some. Edited July 26, 2020 by 87Iroc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
87Iroc 344 Posted July 26, 2020 32 minutes ago, Fishfiles said: Black was the word I was looking for , been deep in it took me 3 times to get soot above Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted July 26, 2020 Black Soot Matey, you say , your doomed, doomed !!!! , LOL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
