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muddygirl81

2006 Honda Rancher 400AT Shift problem

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if all else fails ?. BUY A MANUAL SHIFT MODEL !..LOL. you are correct, if the tranny is bad ?, they start out around $ 1,800.00 bucks to replace.

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14 minutes ago, shadetree said:

if all else fails ?. BUY A MANUAL SHIFT MODEL !..LOL. you are correct, if the tranny is bad ?, they start out around $ 1,800.00 bucks to replace.

 

 

BUT, we have a guy here who can fix them!

 

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thats the guy way up there ^^^^  i was asking you about .... lol. i already sent her the information on him. hours ago.....

Edited by _Wilson_™

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2 hours ago, jeepwm69 said:

 

 

BUT, we have a guy here who can fix them!

 

heck..i can fix them...with a stick of c4 !!..lol.

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I will agree with shrade on this one. Sounds like a clutch problem the new larger tires just brought it to light !   If it works kind of normal in the ESP mode but not in the auto !  The expensive tranny is good !   I brought a beat on severely neglected '05 400 AT back from the dead ran and worked like a new one !    Loved the auto mode !    Now just have a old ES model.    Not everyone  wants a foot shift model !  

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21 hours ago, jeepwm69 said:

 

That was me.  Lot easier to keep up with stuff on a forum.  Threads just disappear on FB.

 

I rebuilt an 05 350 for my middle kid.  I did the 400AT front diff, 07-13 420 Rancher disc brakes, and modded it to start in gear with the brake lever held back like the newer bikes.  The discs brakes bolt on at the ball joints, and here's the write-up if you want to add a "start in gear" feature. 

 

I'm with you on the newer machines being too big.  I ride 500's (05-11's) but the wife and kids ride older smaller Hondas (300 for the oldest daughter, 350 Rancher for the middle daughter, and 09 420 for the wife)

Is my transmission goes out I might just have to make the swap to my 350. I have two 400AT but I’m seriously thinking about getting rid of one since the transmissions are so expensive. How does your wife like her 420? My husband bought an aftermarket power steering kit for my 400 but he hasn’t put it on yet. I started using it mostly for trail riding and long trails back lead to fatigue. 

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15 hours ago, shadetree said:

if all else fails ?. BUY A MANUAL SHIFT MODEL !..LOL. you are correct, if the tranny is bad ?, they start out around $ 1,800.00 bucks to replace.

Lol. That’s what my husband told me. He said I’m too spoiled to the ES and auto. I guess if it made it to 14 years on the same transmission they aren’t that bad if you use it for farm work and trail riding. 

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13 hours ago, oldmxrider said:

I will agree with shrade on this one. Sounds like a clutch problem the new larger tires just brought it to light !   If it works kind of normal in the ESP mode but not in the auto !  The expensive tranny is good !   I brought a beat on severely neglected '05 400 AT back from the dead ran and worked like a new one !    Loved the auto mode !    Now just have a old ES model.    Not everyone  wants a foot shift model !  

I went from 24” Stock tires to 25” Mudlite 2. I looked up the weight and the 25” weighs less than the stock. Could jumping up one size make that much of a difference? I don’t know, I’m not as mechanically inclined as I would like to be. I have 2-400ATs but I’m thinking of getting rid of my other one now. It has been used for hunting and still going strong but I guess they aren’t as “hardly” as other hondas. I love the auto/es feature. 

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I am pretty sure the way you treated your atv and performed maintenance  had a lot to do with how long it lasted ---- new atvs are pricey , if you did sink $1,800 - $2,000 worst case scenerio into what you got , might not be a bad deal as it gave you good service for 10 years , $200 a year is better than $200 a month on a note ---- but hopefully it is something easy and less costly than a transmission job  -----  you'll tried  a clutch adjustment yet ? 

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2 hours ago, muddygirl81 said:

Is my transmission goes out I might just have to make the swap to my 350. I have two 400AT but I’m seriously thinking about getting rid of one since the transmissions are so expensive. How does your wife like her 420? My husband bought an aftermarket power steering kit for my 400 but he hasn’t put it on yet. I started using it mostly for trail riding and long trails back lead to fatigue. 

My guess is you can replace your centrifugal clutch and you'll be good to go.  They're fine for how you're using yours.  It's when you want to run 28" Outlaws and drive around hitting the rev limiter all the time (ala Mrs. Fishfiles) that you'll have problems.

 

The early Hondamatics (01ish Rubicon) had oil pump problems that would destroy the Hondamatic.  The newer ones seem to hold up fairly well (again, if you don't try to make a monster mud toy out of them).

 

Wife likes her 420 ok.  The 420FA has auto/es like your 400, but it has a regular geared transmission and a computer than shifts the transmission in auto mode.    That also means that instead of the nice seamless power you get on the Hondamatic transmissions, you get a jerk when it shifts between gears.  The 420's do have independent rear suspension which makes for a much nicer ride, although not as good for work.

 

The 09-14 were a smaller frame, and after that they're the same size as a Foreman, so I'd say if you wanted one you should look for a lightly used 09-14.  They're out there.  A friend of mine has bought two of them this year for his kids.  Both had around 1K miles on them, and both were $3Kish.

 

I much prefer the manners of the Hondamatic over the newer automatics.  The power is seamless with what you have.  Hit the gas and you go.  The newer ones are more easily serviced, but they have a lot of electronic crap on them that may or may not hold up long term.

 

So there's give and take either way you go. 

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Dont listen to that Shadetree guy he is anti ES 😜

I had the same 06 for about 7 years, & a buddy of mine kept his 05 here as well, no issues with mine, but his had a similar shifting issue, the shift motor brushes were worn out, & the connectors under the front plastics were dirty. Before you start swapping all the sensors (which is could still be the prob) if you can,  pull the shift motor & inspect it. There is also a "Speed Learn" diagnostic in the manual that was shared to relearn how the ECU see's the speed/gears.

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9 hours ago, muddygirl81 said:

I went from 24” Stock tires to 25” Mudlite 2. I looked up the weight and the 25” weighs less than the stock. Could jumping up one size make that much of a difference? I don’t know, I’m not as mechanically inclined as I would like to be. I have 2-400ATs but I’m thinking of getting rid of my other one now. It has been used for hunting and still going strong but I guess they aren’t as “hardly” as other hondas. I love the auto/es feature. 

My thoughts are it is not the weight of the tire, it is the outside circumference of the tire, You changed gearing a bit and the computer can not see this !

 

From Jeeps link that He shared and I found very useful Years ago ! 

 

    "  In “ESP” mode, the ECM tells the swash motor to position the swash plate to five different predetermined “gear” locations when you push the thumb shift buttons up or down. You can use this fact to diagnose a slipping clutch. In Auto mode, when the centrifugal clutch begins to slip, the ECM senses the faster engine RPM, and positions the swash to a higher “gear ratio”. But because the clutch is slipping, the actual power output to the drivetrain is not as great as the ECM expected (and thus "geared" for), and the bike bogs down. By switching into ESP mode, the ECM no longer cares what the engine RPM is and moves the swash plate to a preset position – and everything works normally. So, if your bike acts like it hasn’t shifted down, but then works fine in ESP mode, chances are your clutch is slipping. "

 

I take it You seemed to have no problems before the tire size change ?   If You have another 400 AT with the stock wheel and tire size, do a quick swap and see how it shifts ?  Does it seem back to more normal ?

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8 hours ago, ATC4ever said:

Dont listen to that Shadetree guy he is anti ES 😜

I had the same 06 for about 7 years, & a buddy of mine kept his 05 here as well, no issues with mine, but his had a similar shifting issue, the shift motor brushes were worn out, & the connectors under the front plastics were dirty. Before you start swapping all the sensors (which is could still be the prob) if you can,  pull the shift motor & inspect it. There is also a "Speed Learn" diagnostic in the manual that was shared to relearn how the ECU see's the speed/gears.

yeah..don't listen to the guy thats always seeing and fixing es models with problems...he has no idea what he's saying !?!..whatever...lol.

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On 8/28/2020 at 8:41 PM, shadetree said:

yeah..don't listen to the guy thats always seeing and fixing es models with problems...he has no idea what he's saying !?!..whatever...lol.

We all know it 😉

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I mess with people all the time about the ES and AT atvs , I say the best way to fix any problem on an ES or AT ATV for only $.99 cents  is a " For Sale  Sign " , but I can see how they can be helpful for other uses than mud slinging !!! 

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I just joined and noticed the 400AT issue. I just redid one I bought for cheap as it would barely move in esp and not at all in Auto. I’ll be brief here. With any 400 AT’s. First check oil pressure in front cover if oil pressure is good then Hondamatic is likely fine. 

Leaving them in D while idling over years of use , ever so slowly burns out the centrifugal clutch shoes.  “Ecu” update tried to correct this. 

1 check oil pressure if ok then

2 pull front engine cover and inspect clutch weights and springs. 

3 friction material worn to steel then will slip on clutch drum symptoms: high revs to move , speed sensor to throttle position sensor codes, rider could state: works better in esp then auto.... 

fix : replace clutch shoe weights , springs , coloured oil pressure springs in front cover and approximately the 5 o rings in front cover you disturbed getting to clutch. 

Put back together, install Honda oil or oil that is JASO certified wet clutch oil and it should work like new. Will need throttle position sensor relearn after assembly. Just wanted to say what I did incase someone else has the same issue. 

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You guys have all been a big help. Thank you. It was just the clutches that needed to be adjusted. The transmission is in excellent condition according to the mechanic. 

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8 hours ago, muddygirl81 said:

You guys have all been a big help. Thank you. It was just the clutches that needed to be adjusted. The transmission is in excellent condition according to the mechanic. 

thank you for the update !. please keep in mind ?, later down the road , you very may well need to replace the clutch weights, and all other clutch parts ?, lots of hours/miles on that atv..they dont last forever !..lol. deff run wet clutch approved oil !.

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My suggestion is, if you plan to keep the 400AT's, get extra new clutch stuff for them now, even if you don't need them right this second.  Since they stopped making the 400AT in 2007, parts availability will be iffy as time goes by, and prices always ease up on Honda parts the longer the machine has been out of production.

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Sorry for being out for so long, lots to catch up on here but glad to see pointing to the clutch, that's what it was sounding like as the cause to me when I was reading through the OP. 

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