Fix and Flip | 2008 450ER

[oh400ex 629]

10 minutes ago, shadetree said:

i have argued time and time again..ricks c.d.i.'s are junk !..and yet..no one believes me ?!!...lol.

 

I'll give someone a great deal on a used one 🤣

[SlammedRanger 1,556]

5 hours ago, shadetree said:

i have argued time and time again..ricks c.d.i.'s are junk !..and yet..no one believes me ?!!...lol.

I believe you. As i too had to experiance it first hand. LoL

[oh400ex 629]

There was something I wanted to ask you about @SlammedRanger

 

The idle sometimes will change very slightly between blips of the throttle. Sometimes it will be slightly high/low and most of the time is perfect.

 

Do you think it has anything to do with the slide seal you mentioned earlier?

 

Took it for a short ride today and the throttle definitely does not hang or stick in any noticeable way. Fan works. Engine sounds good when hot. Might have a gem here for someone... the previous owner claimed it had best guess of less than 50 hours on it from brand new but I found that super hard to believe. Maybe after feeling the engine... The story was that it was too fast and he didn't ride it anymore after it spun him off and ruined the set of extended a-arms that used to be on it. I know for a fact it sat for years from the tires.

 

It will have...

 

New iridium spark plug, new OEM clutches, OEM coil, OEM plug boot, OEM CDI, new stator (RM Stator),  new starter clutch gear and one-way (Taiwan), OEM water pump seals and new gaskets

 

Along with two oil filters, 4-5 oil changes and the freshly cleaned/oiled UNI filter the parts that I listed above should put it back to great shape with the exception of needing the valves shimmed. Doesn't feel like it needs it but on a CRF style engine and a bike this old it would be stupid not to sooner than later.

 

Anything else you recommend?

 

 

[SlammedRanger 1,556]

29 minutes ago, oh400ex said:

There was something I wanted to ask you about @SlammedRanger

 

The idle sometimes will change very slightly between blips of the throttle. Sometimes it will be slightly high/low and most of the time is perfect.

 

Do you think it has anything to do with the slide seal you mentioned earlier?

 

Took it for a short ride today and the throttle definitely does not hang or stick in any noticeable way. Fan works. Engine sounds good when hot. Might have a gem here for someone... the previous owner claimed it had best guess of less than 50 hours on it from brand new but I found that super hard to believe. Maybe after feeling the engine... The story was that it was too fast and he didn't ride it anymore after it spun him off and ruined the set of extended a-arms that used to be on it. I know for a fact it sat for years from the tires.

 

It will have...

 

New iridium spark plug, new OEM clutches, OEM coil, OEM plug boot, OEM CDI, new stator (RM Stator),  new starter clutch gear and one-way (Taiwan), OEM water pump seals and new gaskets

 

Along with two oil filters, 4-5 oil changes and the freshly cleaned/oiled UNI filter the parts that I listed above should put it back to great shape with the exception of needing the valves shimmed. Doesn't feel like it needs it but on a CRF style engine and a bike this old it would be stupid not to sooner than later.

 

Anything else you recommend?

 

 

I have found this fcr does like to do that. I did find that bumping up the idle helped alot. And i also found out that the 450s idle at a higher rpm than the 400ex's do. So it is possible if you adjusted it by ear like i do you could have it idling too low. I had to put mine at a point that seems high to my ear but is normal for a 450. Kinda a weird situation. But it adds to people thinking my quad is a 450. Makes me telling them its a 400ex all the more shocking when it walked passed there 450 lol

 

As far as anything else maintainance wise i would jack it up and grab all 4 tires and feel for any play in the wheel bearings, carrier bearings, that type of thing. Check the brake pad thickness. Then send it down the road. 

 

Also these engines when it comes to valve shimming generally its not gunna make any ticking noise as they dont get loose like the 400ex tappet design. These will get tighter and cause starting issues and eventually alot more running problems. These heads are known for valves wearing into them causing tight valve tolerances.

[oh400ex 629]

15 minutes ago, SlammedRanger said:

I have found this fcr does like to do that. I did find that bumping up the idle helped alot. And i also found out that the 450s idle at a higher rpm than the 400ex's do. So it is possible if you adjusted it by ear like i do you could have it idling too low. I had to put mine at a point that seems high to my ear but is normal for a 450. Kinda a weird situation. But it adds to people thinking my quad is a 450. Makes me telling them its a 400ex all the more shocking when it walked passed there 450 lol

 

As far as anything else maintenance wise i would jack it up and grab all 4 tires and feel for any play in the wheel bearings, carrier bearings, that type of thing. Check the brake pad thickness. Then send it down the road. 

 

I might bump up the idle a bit and go from there. It does not hang at any point while riding and doesn't rev the bike up when it does what it does. 

 

No play in the wheel bearings but it does have rear axle/hub spacers (not a fan) so the rear carrier is tight now but IME those spacers wear out anything. 

 

Quote

Also these engines when it comes to valve shimming generally its not gunna make any ticking noise as they dont get loose like the 400ex tappet design. These will get tighter and cause starting issues and eventually a lot more running problems. These heads are known for valves wearing into them causing tight valve tolerances.

 

Oh man you are amazing!

 

Did you read through the 500 Foreman thread I am restoring? 

The valves were found really loose on a bike with 8k miles and I could not figure out why they weren't tight instead.

I think you just answered it... tappet style design on the 2005 Foreman 500 would mean that if the valves were never serviced it would be clacking like a tractor. (it was)

 

Didn't even realize my 400's valves were loosening over time instead of tightening... big blind spot for me there.

I just adjust until it sounds right on most everything... 

 

Thank you for taking the time and the information!

 

Edit: My 1st Metropolitan scooter (that has ~13k on it) is worn out of spec from the valves tightening like you describe.

Shimmed it many times but I killed it by putting the air cleaner on incorrectly and riding on dirt roads.

By the time I realized what happened the damage was mostly done...

 

I bought two more since then and have shimmed the valves on all three. Not happening again... I could have gotten 30k out of that engine if I treated it right lol

Edited October 2, 2020 by oh400ex

[oh400ex 629]

28 minutes ago, SlammedRanger said:

Makes me telling them its a 400ex all the more shocking when it walked passed there 450 lol

 

My 400 is so much faster than this on top end it was shocking. The sprockets must be changed to improve acceleration or I'm just used to mine being so high speeded.

 

I would almost be able to pass this bike in 4th on the 400s. Both mine are geared for top speed. I will surprise myself going through the gears on the 400 sometimes... "oh that wasn't 5th..." sort of deal and the exact opposite on the 450. I kept looking for another gear lol. Top speed is for sure slower than 70 and is likely under 60 but I did not test or anything. My god the power delivery is scary on this one though. 400ex is such a stable platform and this is not. Pulls the front in 5th so easily it is a bit scary for a non-seasoned rider. My wife rode it and officially does not want lol

[SlammedRanger 1,556]

7 minutes ago, oh400ex said:

 

My 400 is so much faster than this on top end it was shocking. The sprockets must be changed to improve acceleration or I'm just used to mine being so high speeded.

 

I would almost be able to pass this bike in 4th on the 400s. Both mine are geared for top speed. I will surprise myself going through the gears on the 400 sometimes... "oh that wasn't 5th..." sort of deal and the exact opposite on the 450. I kept looking for another gear lol. Top speed is for sure slower than 70 and is likely under 60 but I did not test or anything. My god the power delivery is scary on this one though. 400ex is such a stable platform and this is not. Pulls the front in 5th so easily it is a bit scary for a non-seasoned rider. My wife rode it and officially does not want lol

Yeah my build is as close as you can get to both of what you described. Low end is rediculous. Mid is scary and topend is fast enough for what i do. From my point of view if it doesnt scare you sometimes it isnt fun to ride. My stroker checks all those boxes for me. The steady power delivery of the standard 400ex is worlds away from what i have on my hands now lol

[oh400ex 629]

4 minutes ago, SlammedRanger said:

Yeah my build is as close as you can get to both of what you described. Low end is rediculous. Mid is scary and topend is fast enough for what i do. From my point of view if it doesnt scare you sometimes it isnt fun to ride. My stroker checks all those boxes for me. The steady power delivery of the standard 400ex is worlds away from what i have on my hands now lol

 

Would love to come ride track with you sometime or have you come out here and see what we do.

Lots of back roads and wide trails so nothing too serious. I just ride for fun.

The scary/fun part for me comes in how I ride the bike... not so much if I accidently slip the throttle and it flips backward on me lol

I can wheelie the 400s for a long as I want but this one has too much torque to be fun in that regard. Literally no balance point on the 450 before noon 😂

[SlammedRanger 1,556]

3 minutes ago, oh400ex said:

 

Would love to come ride track with you sometime or have you come out here and see what we do.

Lots of back roads and wide trails so nothing too serious. I just ride for fun.

The scary/fun part for me comes in how I ride the bike... not so much if I accidently slip the throttle and it flips backward on me lol

I can wheelie the 400s for a long as I want but this one has too much torque to be fun in that regard. Literally no balance point on the 450 before noon 😂

In the coming years as my daughter gets older and gets to riding her trx90 more and i can get my wife a 250x we plan to load up the toyhauler and head to some riding places alot further away. But i am still atleast a few years out on that. But im far from a wheelie master and with my quads extended swingarm and lowered back end the balance point is all messed up aswell. But thats what i get trying to beat 450s. LoL. Our riding places around here which is with-in 3 hours one way are mostly hill climber trails. So i ride tracks mostly since they are closer.

[oh400ex 629]

Just now, SlammedRanger said:

In the coming years as my daughter gets older and gets to riding her trx90 more and i can get my wife a 250x we plan to load up the toyhauler and head to some riding places alot further away. But i am still atleast a few years out on that. But im far from a wheelie master and with my quads extended swingarm and lowered back end the balance point is all messed up aswell. But thats what i get trying to beat 450s. LoL. Our riding places around here which is with-in 3 hours one way are mostly hill climber trails. So i ride tracks mostly since they are closer.

 

We're so blessed in that regard. We can ride on private property and trails without trailering and just take off from the house on the wheelers.

I picked up the 250/350x build because the 250 platform would be perfect for my wife. Started out looking for a 250ex as she is ok with clutch or no clutch.

 

Been on a track less than five times in my life. Jumps are fun but only table tops and small ones that are forgiving. Your profile thumbnail is scary through the screen lol

[SlammedRanger 1,556]

5 minutes ago, oh400ex said:

 

We're so blessed in that regard. We can ride on private property and trails without trailering and just take off from the house on the wheelers.

I picked up the 250/350x build because the 250 platform would be perfect for my wife. Started out looking for a 250ex as she is ok with clutch or no clutch.

 

Been on a track less than five times in my life. Jumps are fun but only table tops and small ones that are forgiving. Your profile thumbnail is scary through the screen lol

That is part of my plans. But as it is rightnow i live in the middle of town right on a highway. So zero option of any riding out of my driveway lol. We plan to buy land and build in the country eventually. Either build my own track or buy enough land with woods and make trails to ride. That has been a dream of mine for a long time being able to just go ride when ever i want. 

 

I raced as a kid and got in a real bad crash. Mom forced me to sell what was left of the quad. Turned 16 and got on my first quad since the crash. Took alot of practice and now im just flat out not in shape to keep up with some of these younger guys. But on a short track like a fair race i can keep up and even win sometimes lol. But in all honesty i just go to have fun. There is just something about holeshoting quads with way more power than me. Or passing them in the race. It just brings a smile to my face everytime lol

[shadetree 5,880]

all i got out of reading these last few post ^^^ ?..IS A HOSPITAL BILL !!!..ROFL.

[oh400ex 629]

21 hours ago, SlammedRanger said:

I have found this fcr does like to do that. I did find that bumping up the idle helped alot. And i also found out that the 450s idle at a higher rpm than the 400ex's do. So it is possible if you adjusted it by ear like i do you could have it idling too low. 

 

Bingo!

Bumping up the idle was the fix.

 

It wasn't generating enough vacuum to consistently grab the slide at low RPM? Is that right?

 

Rode it again today and yes it is very fast but my 400s are better machines in nearly every way. This one is way unstable in comparison.

Part of me wants to start pulling the ELKA shocks off the front and sticking them on 400 though 😂 

 

13 hours ago, shadetree said:

all i got out of reading these last few post ^^^ ?..IS A HOSPITAL BILL !!!..ROFL.

 

Always wear a helmet if you are riding a sport bike and go out with the understanding that the machine you are riding is trying to end you. Gotta be careful and use good planning to keep yourself safe. I don't have free visits like old @Wheeler and the other boys up North

[TBRider 1,406]

Universal health care for all is a good thing.

[oh400ex 629]

3 hours ago, oh400ex said:

I don't have free visits like old @Wheeler and the other boys up North

 

2 hours ago, TBRider said:

Universal health care for all is a good thing.

 

Just FYI that wasn't a jab.

I would like to not have to worry about falling off my steps and losing my property to a hospital's financial department...

 

We're not talking politics from my perspective... we have enough resources to keep the population from having to go though what we have to go though. Blame drug companies, government, your neighbor or whoever you like. Medicine should not be that expensive.

[SlammedRanger 1,556]

3 hours ago, oh400ex said:

It wasn't generating enough vacuum to consistently grab the slide at low RPM? Is that right?

 

Part of me wants to start pulling the ELKA shocks off the front and sticking them on 400 though 😂 

 

Not 100% sure. I just hear all the 450r's idling alot higher and i put two and two togeather and made 4 lol.

 

The 450r elka shocks will fit no problem. As long as they arent long travel they will bolt right on and work pretty close to perfect. Similar suspension geometry between the two.

[oh400ex 629]

Just a quick update for you all...

 

No real progress on the engine front.

Have received all needed parts and am getting ready to pull it in and do the clutch, starter gear, water pump seals.

 

Gave it a quick rinse and wanted to share a few shots of that. There are also two pictures that show in-process plastic restoration on this machine.

It gets worse before it gets better on plastic! One is before any thing and other is during the process...

 

Thank you for looking!

 

[oh400ex 629]

Well here is a good example of what not to do...

Do it right or do it twice applies. If this was my bike I would likely be starting over as it didn't come out to my standards.

 

Luckily my wife has fully decided that she does not want it. Too fast!

 

My mistake (that you can avoid) is not taking the time to remove all deep scratches before moving onto the next grade of sandpaper.

I got into a hurry and the results suffered because of my impatience. I've been down this road before I don't know why I turned here again but here I am. Shortcuts...

 

The photos are going to show the difference between the fenders. You can see that the factory shine is back and it looks awesome compared to the other side. Start looking closer and the imperfections get more noticeable. I could have arguable done a better job in the same amount of time as this...

When finishing plastic, don't try and skip forward... it ends up taking more overall time when you get to the buffing step.

 

I'll do a separate thread about plastic restoration hopefully someday but here is a general overview of the process.

My method is tried and true but even knowing better I tried to get in a hurry and pain was the result.

 

Start with the 90 degree razor blade and 80 grit and get out all the large scratches and shape any panels. 

Then move up through the grits using as many steps as possible. The more grit sizes you have available the easier the sanding is each time. Start each grit dry and switch to wet-sanding before moving to the next size up for fastest results. Air hose and water are needed to clear plastic dust.

80>120>240>400>600>1000>1500 then finish with a dry cotton buffing wheel. Sanding sponges or foam backed paper is the best thing since sliced bread when it comes to getting certain angles. Heat gun will soften the plastic and make it brittle... this is the only method to restore plastic that works. Make sure to do it correctly to avoid the pitfalls I spoke about in this post.

 

Thank you for reading!

 

 

 

[Fishfiles 20,145]

Give Liquid Sandpaper a try , I like it 

[oh400ex 629]

3 hours ago, Fishfiles said:

Give Liquid Sandpaper a try , I like it 

Used it way back but never on plastic. Thanks. I will

[_Wilson_™ 6,564]

@Fishfiles12000 grit paper would sure do the job.... I've used it many times. but being this is a flip bike ?? i reckon TIME is a limited option ?? and using 12000 grit correctly is time consuming. 

[oh400ex 629]

Mmmmmmm.... humble-pie

 

I'm here hat-in-hand to say that I was wrong about Rick's Electric CDI.

  

On 10/1/2020 at 12:51 PM, oh400ex said:

Rick's Electric CDI is absolute expletive garbage. I will never buy a product with that name on it.

If you have an aftermarket CDI throw it in the trash where it belongs and go back to OEM

 

I just found out that my beloved 00 400ex with stock motor, UNI filter and White Brothers exhaust has a red CDI box...

 

Just never crossed my mind to look closely but was pulling the bike apart to service a few things and noticed it today.

This bike is incredibly reliable and has been ridden many trouble free miles. So my thought that "even a good aftermarket CDI hurts the reliability" appears to be dead wrong too.

 

This thing has always been special. Everyone says its got to be a 440 and I tell them stock but they won't believe it. I have ridden 400exs for many years and with many different aftermarket CDIs over the years and this one always felt special. It wasn't my "perfect" jetting that I was giving credit to before... it was a Rick's Electric CDI that made it run better...

 

My preconceptions are shattered... I am having to completely rearrange my brain regarding how I feel about this type of thing.

 

Full credit goes to @Fishfiles on this one...

He said they were good and that my experience with the 450 was either a one-off or a knockoff product. (China)
I was wrong and he was right. Simple as that.

 

The one thing I will stand behind is that if you are wanting reliability over performance go OEM only.

 

I was on the "OEM CDI only" train with my seatbelt fully locked and tightened but I jumped off this morning.

Still hurting a bit from the fall lol

 

Thank you for reading!

Edited November 2, 2020 by oh400ex

[Fishfiles 20,145]

2 minutes ago, oh400ex said:

Mmmmmmm.... humble-pie

 

I'm here hat-in-hand to say that I was wrong about

 

Wrong about what ? There are so many things I could  pick from , don't know where you are coming from !!! LOL 

 

That Liquid Sandpaper isn't going to  make it a showroom finish , but the paint will stick pretty good and you won't see sand paper swirls and it is a quickie , good for a flipper like you 

[Fishfiles 20,145]

You beat me to the post , wouldn't have never guess that one with 99 guesses !!!! 

Wonder if the 400 EX version of a Rick's has a rev un-limiter and  curved timing built into them ----  research it ---- wouldn't it really be something if it were a Fake Rick's from China  ,  look for Made in Argentina 

 

 

[Fishfiles 20,145]

Hot Shot Honda CDI Box: This Rick's Motorsport Electrics Hot Shot CDI box allows the quad to rev an additional 1000 RPMs over redline and has the stock curve.

 

guessing at your year 

 

https://ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/Hot-Shot-Honda-CDI-Box-15_618