_Wilson_™ 6,563 Posted September 19, 2020 8 hours ago, Mac102004 said: Yep took the pic of the 135 this year raking with it. This will be it's last year raking silage may still do hay with it. Need to switch to a bigger twin rotor rake. Grandfather bought that new in 1971, she won't be going anywhere, too much sentimental value. we have very few rotor rakes here it's mostly wheel rakes , and a few tandem bar rake rigs .. that's a good looking classic 135 massy ... i couldn't sell it ether.. lol, my father feels the same about his ford 4000 ... the family will have it when I'm six feet under ... I'll make sure of that myself! seams like i recall reading something about a deal with AGCO, and white , but, the only time i ever saw a white tractor (pic) .. was at the Louisville farm ... and that was years ago.. but it looked deferent from your pic (which looks like the massy 4wd cab tractors we have here now) but there not powered by that great 6bt cummins ... at least not the ones I've delt (very few) with aren't .. but IMO the 120 -200 horse plus range should be! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chevymec 510 Posted September 19, 2020 On 9/16/2020 at 4:14 AM, _Wilson_™ said: pretty cool build .. That is bad a** !! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chevymec 510 Posted September 19, 2020 I wish I could take pictures from my memories of my Graddaddys tractors. I want to say one was a MF 265 and the other was a Farmall or Allis Chalmers?? It had a ring you pulled to start and the seat was offset the best I can remember. Ill have to take some pics of my Father in laws stuff. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,563 Posted September 19, 2020 i recall a friend who had a 265 massy ... i raked hay his a few times (just helping out) good solid tractor ... you couldn't really beat the small fords or massy's, my uncle had a small 454 international ... which was okay.... i used to plant beans with .. I've gotta say the 1st time .. i moved from one field to the next ... the road gear .. speed was un real ... 37 mph is what she would run .. and that with stock size rear tires .. lol i had no dealings with allis chalmers... much, except one, tracter we owned .. a 200 cab with a loader which had a 301 turbo charged plant .. about 115 horse .. we also had a couple combines gleaners ... the 1st was powered by a chevy 350 CID engine , yes i said chevy 350 .. the other was powered by a 301 diesel turbo charge ... back then the gleaner combines had to operate at a very high rpm... which the 301 wasn't designed to handle 3,000 plus rpm ... so quiet a number of them threw rods .. my thinking would be the side seat tractor you spoke of was ether ether a super a .. or cub plow tractor ?? both great tractors IMO ... do post so,e pics! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,563 Posted September 21, 2020 @bcsman is it cool to post truck, and tractor pulling videos here ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mac102004 426 Posted September 21, 2020 On 9/19/2020 at 5:27 AM, _Wilson_™ said: we have very few rotor rakes here it's mostly wheel rakes , and a few tandem bar rake rigs .. that's a good looking classic 135 massy ... i couldn't sell it ether.. lol, my father feels the same about his ford 4000 ... the family will have it when I'm six feet under ... I'll make sure of that myself! seams like i recall reading something about a deal with AGCO, and white , but, the only time i ever saw a white tractor (pic) .. was at the Louisville farm ... and that was years ago.. but it looked deferent from your pic (which looks like the massy 4wd cab tractors we have here now) but there not powered by that great 6bt cummins ... at least not the ones I've delt (very few) with aren't .. but IMO the 120 -200 horse plus range should be! Those would the the older White designed tractors, pre AGCO. There was another series they had too in between the ones like my 6710 and those older ones. 6155, 6215 were a couple models, they had a funky cab on them. Anyway, that one in your pic I think should have an 8.3L Cummins in it. I'm not a White expert but its the later style decal on the side of the hood, the number doesn't really add up though might be custom. I think the biggest they had was a 195, I would say the smaller ones of that series used a 5.9. Workhorse series I think they called those. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,563 Posted September 21, 2020 yea, they had a strange looking cab .. i never heard anything good about the 8.3 cummins ... seem to be bad about tossings a rods.. i believe I've heard the words case cummins a few times in the past but ... never have layed eyes on one ... IMO the 5 9 12 valve was one of the best engines cummins came out with , well that and the big dog 885 CID .. and for the rest of those computerized junk.. like the 6.7 ... they can have those back ... as there very problematic. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,563 Posted September 21, 2020 even in the cummins forums the 6.7 is not spoke of very well... lol! nether is the 24 valve .5 9 ... but the 12 valve 5.9 ... is considered a rock. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bcsman 1,381 Posted September 22, 2020 11 hours ago, _Wilson_™ said: @bcsman is it cool to post truck, and tractor pulling videos here ? I dont see any problem with that, pretty sure videos are allowed here..... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,563 Posted September 22, 2020 thank you... i always enjoyed going as a boy ... to the lions club pull in columbia ... it was just farm stock tractors... back then most of the farmers drove their tractors 8 (one way) miles to the park .. and the johndeere 4020 ruled for a while ... 404 CID naturally aspirated (none turbo) i drove a few .. with the 8 speed, those were tricky to shift ... but still very popular for such an older machine Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mac102004 426 Posted September 22, 2020 On 9/21/2020 at 1:34 PM, _Wilson_™ said: yea, they had a strange looking cab .. i never heard anything good about the 8.3 cummins ... seem to be bad about tossings a rods.. i believe I've heard the words case cummins a few times in the past but ... never have layed eyes on one ... IMO the 5 9 12 valve was one of the best engines cummins came out with , well that and the big dog 885 CID .. and for the rest of those computerized junk.. like the 6.7 ... they can have those back ... as there very problematic. The 8.3's were a good engine, my uncle has one in a boat @ 430hp, it's 20 years old I think around 5-6000 hours. But to be fair I don't know if anything is as good at the 6BT was. The 24v guys didn't like the VP44 pumps in them, the lift pump would get weak not sending enough fuel pressure to the VP44 and it would get wiped out in short order. The common rail 24v didn't have that problem but still the electronic CP3 pump is inherently less reliable than a full mechanical pump like the 12v's P7100 was. The old 6BT/12v wasn't exactly bullet proof, they did have that issue with the KDP, where a dowel pin would come loose and fall into the timing gears. As far as the 6.7 goes it's a great engine but it suffers from the same problems all new diesels do, emissions equipment. They have all these new engines so choked up it's not even funny. I have a 6.7 Cummins Ram with all the emissions equipment, no issues yet, she's got lots of power and runs smooth and quiet. I doubt it will last (in stock form) like the older engines, but with deletes maybe, still a lot of electronics though. The Case/Cummins thing goes like this. The 5.9 and 8.3 were both co-designed by Case and Cummins. They created a joint venture company called CDC, Consolidated Diesel Corporation, and were 50/50 partners in the design of the 5.9 and 8.3, and I think another engine, not sure, likely the 3.9 I suppose. Anyway, Case used the "Cummins" engines in their farm tractors starting around 1983-1984? The 1896 and 2096 would have been the first to use the 5.9. Later (1987) the Magnum series used the 8.3, and when the Maxxum came out in 1988-89? they used the 3.9 and 5.9 engines. I think by the late 80's pretty well everything Case sold used the "Cummins" engines. I use quotes because they marketed them as their own, since like I said they were a joint venture and both Case and Cummins had the right to market and sell them as their own engines. By the early 2000's Case and New Holland had merged and they started to move away from the Cummins engines in favour of Fiat engines, I think sometime around then Cummins bought out CNH's 50% interest in CDC, and Cummins then owned full rights to the 5.9/8.3 design. I think Cummins also had some interest in the FPT (Fiat Power Train) company, which was a CNH/Iveco/Fiat/Cummins thing, and at the same time they were buying out Case from CDC, they were selling their interest in that company back to CNH/Fiat. But I'm just going from memory here, a google search would tell you more than you ever wanted to know I'm sure, if I haven't already. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,563 Posted September 23, 2020 thanks mac. GREAT read! i never had 1st hand dealings with the 8.3 ... just alot reading ... books , and hearing the local diesel shop (Dixie diesel) wrench on them often, the vp44 was the electronic controlled rotary pump ?? 6000 hours is good IMO ... agreed on the 6bt ... excellent engine .. my 12v has the p7100 pump ... (knock on wood) not a single issue ... agreed .. diesels weren't meant to be choked down with all that emissions mess... I'm glad i dont have one... here if your truck doesn't pass emissions testing because of a delete ... you can't get tags .. and your truck is recorded in a database ... and you have to pay to have all the emissions mess put back on ... in a certain amount of time ... and, with the laws now, i don't know, what other strick regulations they have for deletions. i don't think i need to google this after your post ... maybe not even bing lol... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mac102004 426 Posted September 24, 2020 Yeah the VP was the electronic rotary. I had an 01 with it and Dad has a 99 with it, he still has his. Never had much issue out of them, I had an aftermarket lift pump on mine and an edge tuner, his is all stock. They switched to that pump in the Dodge cummins mid year 1998. I guess the 5.9 used in other applications continued on with mechanical pumps? I honestly have no experience with them. The White is a 1998 and used a Bosch A inline pump, rather than the P7100. I guess the P7100's were more for variable throttle vs. fixed throttle like a farm tractor would see. I think 6000 hours is respectable too, especially considering you have an engine producing 430hp in a marine application. If it can survive that amount of power like that they must last. along time in a farm tractor set at 150-250hp. Some provinces up here they are starting with that too. Stricter on the emissions. I think this emissions stuff is just something we are going to have to learn to live with. Honestly a lot of guys hate on the DEF fluid but prior to that when they were trying to meet emissions with only the DPF and SCR and other crap they seemed to be much more problematic and overall just worse off. Using DEF seems to make life easier on the rest of the emissions gear, like I said my 2015 ram I've never had an issue with the emissions and it's never done a regen that I can remember either. I remember years ago looking at the intake and exhaust on the 12 and 24v dodge trucks, the huge muffler and resonator, and the small factory filter, couldn't wait to put a flow through 4" exhaust on and a big rig air cleaner. I thought those were choked up bad, and changing that stuff did make a noticeable difference. I can't imagine what a difference you'd feel getting rid of that crap on a new diesel. The whole exhaust is cans and sensors from one end to the other. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,563 Posted September 25, 2020 i never had any dealings with those electronic controled VP pumps ... but sounds like y'all have had good service ... mine has a mechanical inline pump 7100 .... i would think ... I'm sure by now it's needs changing ... but she still fires up in the dead of winter ... we never have turned a screw .. the only emissions still on is the cat ... which I'd like to do away with ... eh.... my pop is like jeep's ... lol doesn't like things messed with... i agree it's getting strick all over ... if you look at exhaust tips ... no carbon .. what so ever ... clean as a plate on the inside a sure sign of a def system ... now i agree with clean burning engines... but to choke them with all kinds of emission mess is just ignorant IMO , plus it shortens the life... I've heard many drivers talk about being shut down due the regen ... glad you deleted all that mess... i would do the same to ours .... it's just the cat left ... i don't care too much for the straight pipe sound ... plus in columbia ... it, and jakes are a ticket offence ... a very costly ticket offence ... I'm just shocked at strick things have gotten ..with what else is going on.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,563 Posted September 25, 2020 excellent video .... my father and few other big farmers met him... and kinze planters took over here ... we along with other farmers moved from johndeere planters to kinze .. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,563 Posted September 26, 2020 one of jon kinzenbaw's re powered johndeere 318 8-v 71 Detroit diesel full pull. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,563 Posted September 28, 2020 On September 19, 2020 at 10:45 AM, Chevymec said: Farmall or Allis Chalmers?? It had a ring you pulled to start and the seat was offset the best I can remember. Ill have to take some pics of my Father in laws stuff. our old super a ... had the same ... a pull rod going going to the starter going to the starter ... i had worked on it just once ... for contact .. i believe .. although, that was years ago... as many hours we put on that machine ... she never had many issues ... even had a hand crank start ... i know my father used it, but i never did ... he always said you could break your arm .. still has the hand crank .. latched to the right side of the transmition. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RubiDan 596 Posted September 30, 2020 On 9/28/2020 at 7:27 AM, _Wilson_™ said: our old super a ... had the same ... a pull rod going going to the starter going to the starter ... i had worked on it just once ... for contact .. i believe .. although, that was years ago... as many hours we put on that machine ... she never had many issues ... even had a hand crank start ... i know my father used it, but i never did ... he always said you could break your arm .. still has the hand crank .. latched to the right side of the transmition. My dad had a Farmall A when I was growing up but it wasn't a Super A. It didn't have an electric starter and had no 3 point hitch. It did have some sort of a vacuum lift but I don't ever remember it being used. It was pretty easy to start and it never did kick back when starting that I know of. I'm guessing that if the timing had been advanced very much it would have kicked back running the risk of broken bones. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,563 Posted September 30, 2020 I'm drawing a blank ..(on what they looked like) .. i believe they were first on the market in 1927 ...in a tricycle configuration, those were sure enough a collectors dream! you could try google image ... for information... that's a tad bit before my time... lol 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RubiDan 596 Posted September 30, 2020 The Super A tractors that I have saw looked like the A that my dad had which I think was a 40 something model with a wide front end. I'm pretty sure that the Super added hydraulics to it and possibly other things. My friend has a Farmall (Super?) C with hydraulics and a rigged up front end loader. It does have a tricycle front end. I saw him start it about a week ago and it sounded very good. He's wanting $800 for it and I'd say it's worth it but I don't have any need for it. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,563 Posted September 30, 2020 I've never seen one with a wide front end ... but i take it your talking about something like this ? the super A and cub ... were the most popular around here ... there were all kinds of optional add ons for those tractors back in the day ... even a VERY RARE fire department model. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,563 Posted September 30, 2020 9 hours ago, RubiDan said: My friend has a Farmall (Super?) C with hydraulics and a rigged up front end loader. It does have a tricycle front end. I saw him start it about a week ago and it sounded very good. He's wanting $800 for it and I'd say it's worth it but I don't have any need for it. post some pics if you can ... if she's in good shape ... she'd be worth $800 or more easily ... and like an old school honda ... will only go up in price ... we've been offered $2500 for our super A .. she's not the best looker .. not beat up ... no rust still has the cultivators . just faded paint. ... but shes not out in the weather, and still runs like a top, and has never been wrenched on... 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RubiDan 596 Posted October 1, 2020 13 hours ago, _Wilson_™ said: post some pics if you can ... if she's in good shape ... she'd be worth $800 or more easily ... and like an old school honda ... will only go up in price ... we've been offered $2500 for our super A .. she's not the best looker .. not beat up ... no rust still has the cultivators . just faded paint. ... but shes not out in the weather, and still runs like a top, and has never been wrenched on... My dad's A had the wide front end and it was offset I'm guessing for cultivating. My friend's C has the tricycle front end but other than the front end it looks like the one in your picture. I'll take some pictures of it when I get over his way if I don't forget about it. I don't get over there very often but if you're interested in it I'll make sure I go over there to take some pictures of it for you. He's located in Taylorsville, Ky. The front end loader isn't much. It has a narrow bucket and doesn't have the right hookups for it. It's pretty much rigged but it seems to work. It just has up and down and a manual trip for the bucket. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,563 Posted October 1, 2020 thank you, I'd love to see it! ...sounds your dad had a super a wide ... they were indeed called a cultivator tracter. was the seat close to right side, and the shifter over to the left ... and a steering rod running the lenght of the tracter ... down the right side ? this kind of sounds like what your friend has ... but I'm not familure ... with this model. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,563 Posted October 1, 2020 here's that fire trac ..... i have never seen one of these around here ... IH did alot with those tractors back in the day .. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
