Liam Nixon

9 hours ago, AKATV said:

If you are getting the same results when you unplug the gear switch and are grounding the  proper specific wires on the harness side, then i would say your switch is good and you have a short in the harness,as at no time should your reverse and neutral switch be on at the same time

I would say its time to start looking for a short

Also, have you tried checking the wiring  at your gray speedometer plug where it connects, for shorts in wiring  or damages?

 I would try unplugging and cleaning that plug as well

I can talk you thru testing the speedometer at the plug side if you want,

you would need to provide a ground wire and 12vdc to various points at the plug if you are interested

That would be appreciated, I am leaving for a week and wanted to being the bike, just gonna have to live with it acting like this in the meantime I guess, I'll try to go over it when I get back, just for a point of reference, do you know of any points on the wiring harness where it could easily have shorted out or anything? Or any component such as the change switch that could be causing it? And yes I'd also like to test the speedo due to the fact it's always been inaccurate on things such as the odo and time

2 minutes ago, AKATV said:

You should try to bypass the gear switch (unplug it)

then,  directly ground the specific colored wires on the harness side and see if your display responds accordingly(properly)

if it does, you have a wacko gear switch

if it does not,you probably have a short in harness or other issue but i dont at this time think its your speedometer

you could have a short in the harness where the harness might rub on  the frame, handlebars etc 

Sorry I thought I mentioned I did that, yes, I unplugged it and tried to ground it to the same result I got with the gear switch, shows a "1" when 1st us grounded, and "--" in everything else, and still will start when nuetral is grounded 

2 minutes ago, AKATV said:

Well that picture is a big help

You should NOT have the Neutral light and Reverse light on at he same time

you have a short or a bad gear switch

I tried to write something along with the pictures but it didn't work for some reason, I took pictures in neutral, reverse, 1st, 5th, when I try to start in gear, and when I try to start in neutral, when I try to start in gear is the only time the neutral light disappears, it doesn't start if the gear position switch is unplugged or its in gear, which tells me the gear position seems to be working, am I right? And the "1" that appears is only when I'm in gears 1-4, no other time. It disappears in rev, neutral, and 5th, I will try testing the continuity again however it was only giving me continuity in the specific colour corrosponding to each gear

13 minutes ago, AKATV said:

Sounds like if you are getting the Neutral light and Reverse light, but the speedometer is not showing N or R on the speedometer you could have a 

speedometer issue.

When I have a speedometer on the bench completely separate from the ATV and powered up, as soon as you ground the wire for Neutral or Reverse the speedometer LED will come on and display will show the appropriate N or R etc...

Can you post a picture here of what its doing in N or R showing the display?

I have been repairing these for years and have seen most speedometer faults and might recognize better if I can see a picture or two

 

Also, in the diagram, it is correct that you should have continuity for the circles and the points where the line that connects them together

its important to also check the points for no continuity where there is no line/circle, as sometimes you can have a short that will cause an issue as well

Okay, I have continuity only where the circles are on the diagram, I have no continuity anywhere else, only when it is specifically in the correct gear such as grey only has continuity in reverse, and LB only has continuity in 5th, nowhere else. If I understand what your saying correctly it shouldn't be that way?

13 minutes ago, AKATV said:

Sounds like if you are getting the Neutral light and Reverse light, but the speedometer is not showing N or R on the speedometer you could have a 

speedometer issue.

When I have a speedometer on the bench completely separate from the ATV and powered up, as soon as you ground the wire for Neutral or Reverse the speedometer LED will come on and display will show the appropriate N or R etc...

Can you post a picture here of what its doing in N or R showing the display?

I have been repairing these for years and have seen most speedometer faults and might recognize better if I can see a picture or two

 

Also, in the diagram, it is correct that you should have continuity for the circles and the points where the line that connects them together

its important to also check the points for no continuity where there is no line/circle, as sometimes you can have a short that will cause an issue as well

Okay, I have continuity only where the circles are on the diagram, I have no continuity anywhere else, only when it is specifically in the correct gear such as grey only has continuity in reverse, and LB only has continuity in 5th, nowhere else. If I understand what your saying correctly it shouldn't be that way?

Also yes, it's a 4 prong white connection, 1998

33 minutes ago, AKATV said:

Hi Liam 

Sorry to hear you are having issues still- are you getting continuity at the new switch as per manual

Also what year was you Foreman 450ES -does your gear position switch  have the small 4 wire white connector or the big gray plug?

Did you happen to do the continuity tests that retro had posted above?

You should also be able to also ground each pin on the harness side of that plug to ensure the N light comes on and N position on speedometer is working

as well as the same for R and 5th, then you will know that side is good and can work on why the change switch side is not providing ground and we can take it from there

 

By the way I grew up in ME just across border from New Brunswick- Mom is from St Stephen NB-  used to sneak across as young man in high school as it was a little easier to look 19 than 21 to buy beer-LOL most of our teachers or friend parents worked the border crossing , so they would just wave us across and tell us to stay out of trouble -ah simpler times......

Labbatts blue and export "A"s haha

 

 Anyways, let us know how you are coming and we'll get this figured out  ... Eh? ..lol

Upon testing it I have the continuity in the correct places, grey has continuity in reverse, yadda yadda, however I was confused by the diagram whether it meant I should have continuity in all colours in reverse, like when the line goes between the circles on the diagram, or I should only have continuity specifically when I'm in that gear indicated by where the circle on the diagram is, either way I'm getting continuity where I think I should, and when the gear position switch is plugged in and put in neutral, the green dash light is shining more than the red, and vice versa when in reverse, and I can still start it when in neutral with the starter, so the system still does know what gear it's in, is this a speedometer unit failure? Like would that explain why I lost both gear position and speed at the same time basically?

Just now, Liam Nixon said:

Sorry for the hiatus, things have been busy, anyways yeah so I installed the gear position switch today, put it all back together, and still nothing, the gears still say -- when in rev, neutral, or 5th, the only time it's show any numbers is when it's in 1st-4th and it only says 1st while in those gears, is there something I have to reset to try and get it to work? Or should I just hang my head and accept that I can't see what gear the bike is in, functionality hasn't been affected, but I still would like to see what gear I'm in if at all possible, any suggestions?

Also wanted to say yes, I tested the shift motor and it works great 

Sorry for the hiatus, things have been busy, anyways yeah so I installed the gear position switch today, put it all back together, and still nothing, the gears still say -- when in rev, neutral, or 5th, the only time it's show any numbers is when it's in 1st-4th and it only says 1st while in those gears, is there something I have to reset to try and get it to work? Or should I just hang my head and accept that I can't see what gear the bike is in, functionality hasn't been affected, but I still would like to see what gear I'm in if at all possible, any suggestions?

On 5/14/2020 at 9:58 AM, Goober said:

Oh ok i read it wrong.  You’re getting plenty of fuel. Sputtering when in gear. Has the carb ever been rebuilt? Is it a Keihin QA03A? Rebuild it.

 

wiring the winch. Here’s mine on my TRX300. Where did you mount the contactor (big relay)?.  Red controller wire goes from control switch to accessory hot wire. Up/down controller wires go from controller to contactor control terminals (B and LG). Winch power cables go from winch to large contactor terminals Blue and Yellow. Main power comes from the battery Red and Black cables and connected to largest contactor terminals 

I mounted it underneath the front plastic just below the grey plastic section, and it's the stock carburetor as far as I know

13 minutes ago, _Wilson_™ said:

 

 

 

being the fuel pump issue started after the winch wiring, my thinking is the PO may have done some wire harness hacking ...

That was kind of my thinking too, it is kind of a sketchily done in some areas, I'm going to go over the whole wiring harness and also get a rebuild kit for that carburetor

6 hours ago, _Wilson_™ said:

how did you wire the winch ? (straight to battery with a inline fuse) a winch should NOT be wired the accessory power... outlet...on those old tanks... the accessory wire harness is not designed to carry the amperage ... to operate a winch.... 

 

post us some pics of the wire job. 

I'll post some pics later today, but yes I wired her up to the battery and not the accessory socket, and it is a fused linkage too yes which is wired to the key as not to operate without the bike being on

8 hours ago, Goober said:

Ok this is good info. if fuel is pouring out the carb i take that as an excellent sign—you’re getting fuel.

 

Overflowing means your float valve isn’t closing off fuel when the bowl is full. Very common. The tip of the float needle can become dirty or brittle. The valve seat can become build up a layer of oxidation.The float can also go out of tolerance.

 

buy a Shindy rebuild kit if you want new seals and jets; when you get into the carb you may find the passage plug is worn. Since the Shindy kit doesn’t include it—i am not aware that it’s separately available—you would then need a Honda gasket kit. 

here are two of my Keihin QA03A ready to go—you can see the passage plug missing from one carb. It’s in the gasket pack between 

I would stick with Quad-specific OEM 

 

 

I'm sorry I should've specified a bit clearer, I meant when I take the fuel line off and try to crank it over the pump is pumping plenty of fuel, not that the carb itself is leaking any, and it was working fine, like perfectly, until I wired up my winch, I'd there anything that could be affected by doing that?

16 hours ago, Goober said:

I don’t know that you can trust that ProCycle relay—can you try an OEM relay?

 

is you fuel tank rusty? Tank suction tubes clear? Petcock seal properly aligned? Fuel filter clogged? Fuel lines cracked?

 

If you replaced the pump maybe it got extra good at clogging up the suction lines

The pro-cycle relay is an OEM part, and the fuel pump was replaced 2 weeks ago with an OEM pump, when it's off the carb and I try to start the bike it just pours gas out like it's life depends on it so there's no problem there, but as soon as I try to get moving in gear it just starts sputtering.

10 hours ago, Goober said:

You cannot find a cheap replacement that works—the cables won’t fit, the choke valve won’t seat well—just not the way to go.

those machines take a Keihin QA03A—very easy to rebuild. 

Okay but what about another OEM crab from a different bike? Buddy told me that may work with some negotiation, but I'm hesitant, what's the best way to attack it?

I'm gonna replace the carb, I'm having difficulty finding a cheap replacement, where would be good place to order from?

14 minutes ago, jeepwm69 said:

Take it apart and see what you find, order accordingly.

 

You can mix pinion and ring gears on the newer machines.  They are straight cut gears so you can buy the ring gear only and use your existing pinion gear if the ring gear is all you need. 

 

On the older machines like the 300's and 350D Foreman the gears were helical cut and had to be used in matched pairs. 

 

More than likely you'd need a ring gear, an axle shaft, and the left rear axle bearing that sits at the end of the tube right by the wheel.  Those are the common bad spots.

 

Again, tear it down and inspect everything.  Then see what parts you need to replace.

After further investigation today the left rear bearing is absolutely toast, I am guessing it went bad long ago and then the wobble wore out the axle, but I slid the able out and quite a few ball bearings fell out so that and the axle need to get replaced at the very least, if not more.

4 hours ago, jeepwm69 said:

Probably going to need a new axle and ring gear.  The splines on both will wear and eventually strip out.

So I should get a straight axle, the pinion and pinion conversion gear, and bearings basically all around? Is that essentially what should be done? Man, that won't be cheap.

Hey, I had my rear differential started to clunk recently when turning sharply or going from forward to reverse, so after taking the right hub of and pulling it left as much as I could I could see the actual straight axle was worn down on the splines, I'm wondering if I should rebuild the diff or just replace the straight axle, when I pulled it through what looks like the front part of a bearing and 2 ball hearing fell out so I'm gonna have to open it up, but what is the the right kit for the job? it's a 98 with original straight axle and diff so should it be done?

47 minutes ago, Melatv said:

Hi: Is the battery fully charged?

So after investigation the pump and everything function, but the actual carb isn't letting it rev past a certain point or it starts sputtering, gonna investigate further when I can I guess

1 hour ago, Goober said:

You wired a winch into it? No don’t wire anything else to the pump.

 

wire the winch to the accessory circuit 

Sorry I mean I wired a winch to the bike, it's not attached to the pump at all sorry if I confused you

29 minutes ago, shadetree said:

oem pump ?, or china crap from ebay or amazon ?, is the fuel cut-off replay new ?. if you got it from ebay/amazon ?, thats why it died !..lol. you can't wire them to a switch..it does not work !.

It's a new oem pump and a brand new relay from pro-cycle so it kinda confused me that it started acting up 

So while I've been waiting on parts to fix my 450 foreman I started to do a bit of work an old 350 my neighbour owned, I had to replace the fuel pump and the new one worked fine and dandy for a while, I wired in a which to it and lo and behold now the fuel pump isn't operating correctly, at first it wouldn't do anything, then it started to marginally work, like it would pump some fuel every so often, basically just enough to get it to idle, I'm wondering if the wiring is at fault or did the new pump burn out, any response is appreciated 

1 hour ago, retro said:

Test your gear position switch first. If yours is bad replace it. Then prep your ES system according to the guide I posted. Then if there are any remaining issues we can troubleshoot those individually. This way you won't be wasting money on stuff you may not need. We can help ya fix it!

Sounds like a plan! Ordered the switch and it should be here in a few days, also ordered the clutch adjustment thingy because mine is seized and stripped 

So I'm talking to a guy right now who has a gear position switch, a change control switch, and a speedometer unit, but I'm unsure if I should just purchase the original gear position switch that I needed or to get those parts that I'm unsure about, what would you guys do? I just want to spend the minimum amount possible, is there a way to test the change control unit without the gear position switch working?

1 hour ago, AKATV said:

Welcome to the forum and glad to to see you made it over here you are in the right place for sure!

Happy that you are making progress, I just had a corroded gear position swith and my Rancher 350(nonES) as well-

The ATV was hot wired to start in any gear as would not show "N" or "R"

I tested the switch and could not get continuity and thought someone had it installed it incorrectly and broke the "N" pin off of the switch inside of case....or my shift drum was broken(sigh....)

The switch would not read continuity, so I opened case and removed it and the pin was not broken, still would not test right on the bench so I opened it up and it was  all corroded inside

Ordered a used one off fleabay for 5.00 and back in business-Hope your fix is just as easy

Either way we will help you get it all sorted out

If you have any issues with speedometer I can help you out just let me know

Welcome aboard!

Thanks for telling me about this site, and yeah my switch isn't reading right so I'm going to replace than and then if all else fails it only leaves the change control unit, so I'd either replace that or get the kit mentioned by @Fishfiles, I'd like to convert it to footshift but like @jeepwm69 mentioned here:

44 minutes ago, jeepwm69 said:

The 450ES and 450 footshifts have different gears in the transmissions, so were it mine I’d keep it an ES and fix it. 

 

If you weren’t in Canada throwing used OEM parts at it wouldn’t be too expensive, but shipping stuff up there would make the slow, methodical approach a better option.

They have different gears so it may not be the best idea, but nonetheless it's still an option if nothing else works, basically right now I'm gonna replace the gear position switch and then see what that does for me, if that doesn't work I'll either buy that conversion or order a change control unit, they're both roughly the same price but the conversion is a sure-fire solution, at the end of the day I just want to get the ES working, and see what gear I'm in and my speed, easier said than done right? And yeah jeep up here in Canada everything is expensive, the dollar is crap and current events aren't helping 😬

5 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

eh !!!  --- Close ----  I think,  we here in the USA use to be  a Commonwealth at one time , things changed and I think it all was over a spot of  tea ??? LOL ---  

 

 I am sure we can get a couple of people  on this site right now ,  that has done it ,  to give you the low down of what all needs to be swopped out , I have read the procedure and it doesn't sound too bad at all , I might even be able to pull it off ... 

Haha that's about right, didn't like the taxes so you turned the harbour to tea, all went from there haha

And yeah just looked and doesn't seem that bad, so I'll get that done, change the gear position switch just so I can tell what gear I is in and then try to figure the speedometer I guess 🤷‍♂️