Infinitysurf 7 Posted May 16 (edited) Got my ES shifting issues figured out and took my recently aquired 2005 Recon for maiden ride down my neighborhood street this evening to test things out before putting everything back together. Shifting is fast and fairly smooth but when I shift from 3rd into 4th or 5th down to 4th...the quad feels like it goes into neutral as it starts free wheeling (neutral light does not come on) I believe this is called a false neutral? I got the quad in pieces and from what the previous owner said it had sat for 2yrs like that. The only thing he said clearly was that the reason his Dad had taken it apart and it was in pieces was because they were having an intermitten issue with the quad in 4th gear. He did not explain the issue in a way I could understand and I couldnt tell if he was being evasive on purpose or just plain didn't know but I just assumed it was issues with the ES system since that seems to be a common theme with the ES quads. Is it likely that I need to buy new clutch plates & friction discs as they are wearing out since almost 20yrs old or is there potentially something else I should check that makes this happen? I did adjust the clutch immediately after re-installing the cover (counter clockwise till you feel resistance and then back off 1/4 turn & secure locknut) I had the clutch cover off recently and everything looks to be in good shape but I did not disassemble the centrifugal clutch or remove the clutch plates. Hoping someone here has experience with this issue so I don't start replacing things that are not a problem. Full disclosure - I only took it on this one ride for probably 1/2 mile so I cant say for certain that this will happen EVERY time you shift up/down into 4th gear but I took it from 1st thru 5th gear 2 times and both times shifting both up & down when it shifted into 4th gear (the 4th gear light did come on) the quad went into this false neutral and started free wheeling. Appreciate any pointers! Will upload a few pics Edited May 16 by Infinitysurf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Infinitysurf 7 Posted May 16 Doubt this helps anything but its habit for me to always take pics before I disassemble anything so when I had the clutch cover off the other day I snapped these pics just after removing the screws to the centrifugal cover as I wanted to remove any sludge from the cover while I had it open. Pretty certain this cover had never been removed before, looks to me like nothing at all has ever been done to this Recon except for some idiot that put an aftermarket carburetor on it, likely after letting it sit for a long while and the oem carb got gunked up & they didn't know how to properly clean it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepwm69 7,673 Posted May 16 I'm not familiar with the Recons, but 4th gear going out was pretty common on the early 420 Ranchers. Problem is most likely in the shift drum/transmission, which will require tearing the engine all the way apart/ splitting crankcases to inspect. If all of the other gears work ok, and 4th is the only problem, it would almost have to be a problem in the transmission/shift drum area. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shadetree 5,952 Posted May 16 i'm gonna agree with jeep ^^ ( mark this down , underline it..cuz it does not happen very often !..lol )..sounds like a worn shift drum ?..or a bad shift fork ?. either way, the engine will need to be removed..and split. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Infinitysurf 7 Posted May 16 Dang - last thing I wanted to hear, lol. Thank you both very much for the replies!! If I have to remove the engine and split the case anyway, might as well 1st remove the front cover again so I can remove both of the clutches carefully check the clutch plates/discs & basket as well as that star shaped drum shifter in the hopes that I see something obvious there. If not then I will just have to suck it up and split the case, I know you guys are probably right. I havent found much online in regards to this kind of issue effecting only 1 gear doing this, is it fairly rare for the Recon to have an internal transmission issue like this? Thanks again Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepwm69 7,673 Posted May 16 27 minutes ago, Infinitysurf said: Dang - last thing I wanted to hear, lol. Thank you both very much for the replies!! If I have to remove the engine and split the case anyway, might as well 1st remove the front cover again so I can remove both of the clutches carefully check the clutch plates/discs & basket as well as that star shaped drum shifter in the hopes that I see something obvious there. If not then I will just have to suck it up and split the case, I know you guys are probably right. I havent found much online in regards to this kind of issue effecting only 1 gear doing this, is it fairly rare for the Recon to have an internal transmission issue like this? Thanks again Well I've never worked on a Recon, but 4th gear going out was common on the early 420 Ranchers. An updated shift drum and gearset was eventually released to fix the problem. Pricey parts when purchased new. 1st gear was a common failure on 05-08 Foremans. In 09 they beefed up that gear and the new beefier gear was a swap in replacement for the 05-08 models. So while it it certainly not a common issue, it is an issue on some machines. But if you're game, tear into that engine and see what you find. Take lots of pics! We like pics around here! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Infinitysurf 7 Posted May 16 3 minutes ago, jeepwm69 said: Well I've never worked on a Recon, but 4th gear going out was common on the early 420 Ranchers. An updated shift drum and gearset was eventually released to fix the problem. Pricey parts when purchased new. 1st gear was a common failure on 05-08 Foremans. In 09 they beefed up that gear and the new beefier gear was a swap in replacement for the 05-08 models. So while it it certainly not a common issue, it is an issue on some machines. But if you're game, tear into that engine and see what you find. Take lots of pics! We like pics around here! I just went out to garage and with key on and engine off I shifted up & down thru all the gears multiple times while gently rocking the quad forward/back. Nice, fast, positive gear changes every time and also every time when it goes into 4th gear the quad is not locked into the gear and will freely roll forward/reverse. So I gotta assume that you guys are 100% right and the only option is just to split the case and carefully check everything in there, gotta be something wrong at internally with the drum or a shifting fork. I will 100% tear this down tho it may take me a little while to tear that deep into this one since I have several other machines to finish putting together now that I have repaired the misc problems they had since I know they will run right and I want to get my daughters out riding. Those machines were all running decent initially but had sat for long periods before I bought them and had not been maintained well so needed the bearings replaced in the swingarms & steering stem shaft, the front brakes needed to be re-built, rear brake and some of the cables were seized up and needed to be replaced, I cleaned the gas tanks/carbs etc. Was hoping this one would not be extensive but its not looking that way now. Guess the bright side is after doing this I will know the entire Recon system inside & out. Once I get going on this project I will be sure to come back to this thread and post pics & updates as I go along. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shadetree 5,952 Posted May 16 1 hour ago, Infinitysurf said: I just went out to garage and with key on and engine off I shifted up & down thru all the gears multiple times while gently rocking the quad forward/back. Nice, fast, positive gear changes every time and also every time when it goes into 4th gear the quad is not locked into the gear and will freely roll forward/reverse. So I gotta assume that you guys are 100% right and the only option is just to split the case and carefully check everything in there, gotta be something wrong at internally with the drum or a shifting fork. I will 100% tear this down tho it may take me a little while to tear that deep into this one since I have several other machines to finish putting together now that I have repaired the misc problems they had since I know they will run right and I want to get my daughters out riding. Those machines were all running decent initially but had sat for long periods before I bought them and had not been maintained well so needed the bearings replaced in the swingarms & steering stem shaft, the front brakes needed to be re-built, rear brake and some of the cables were seized up and needed to be replaced, I cleaned the gas tanks/carbs etc. Was hoping this one would not be extensive but its not looking that way now. Guess the bright side is after doing this I will know the entire Recon system inside & out. Once I get going on this project I will be sure to come back to this thread and post pics & updates as I go along. BEFORE you pull the engine?!, like you said, pull front cover, and have a look at the star shifter thingy attached to the front of the shift drum, you may luck out, and have an issue right there somewhere?. ALWAYS START WITH THE SMALL STUFF FIRST, BEFORE YOU DIG IN DEEP !..LOL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Infinitysurf 7 Posted May 16 I will do that for sure. Haven't looked at the details yet in service manual but I think to split the case & remove the internal transmission parts like shift drum, etc I gotta remove front/rear covers as well as remove the 2 front clutches anyway. Went ahead and got the quad stripped down so as soon as I have the time its ready to open up front cover and then likely remove the engine. Will take up less space stripped down anyway so I have room to work on the other quads in the meantime. Figured I would post the 1st couple pics tho of it mostly stripped down. If it comes down too pulling the engine which seems likely, might as well do some prep work and paint the frame in some areas it is starting to rust and at least stop the deterioration from getting worse. Thank goodness I got this thing cheap! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shadetree 5,952 Posted May 17 3 hours ago, Infinitysurf said: I will do that for sure. Haven't looked at the details yet in service manual but I think to split the case & remove the internal transmission parts like shift drum, etc I gotta remove front/rear covers as well as remove the 2 front clutches anyway. Went ahead and got the quad stripped down so as soon as I have the time its ready to open up front cover and then likely remove the engine. Will take up less space stripped down anyway so I have room to work on the other quads in the meantime. Figured I would post the 1st couple pics tho of it mostly stripped down. If it comes down too pulling the engine which seems likely, might as well do some prep work and paint the frame in some areas it is starting to rust and at least stop the deterioration from getting worse. Thank goodness I got this thing cheap! lol..they come cheap sometimes..but in the end...the cost adds up fast !..lol. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
