Creeping in gear / after one way replacement

[Igetby 2]

Hi everyone!  04 450 foreman es. Replaced one way bearing behind centrifugal due to some engine noise under load and absolutely 0 engine braking as well as the whirling winding down sound when turning off atv. Got it done and noticed it crept in gear.. never did this before. took for a test run and engine noise is gone and engine braking is on point. Crawls like a snail coming off a hill.. but it wont stop creeping in gear! I adjusted clutch freeplay and turned idle as low as possible.. broke loose nut turned adjuster counterclockwise until it started to get tight backed off 1/4 turn and locked it down.. did this multiple times.. still creeps. Keep being told I put one way in backwards…. I confirmed when installed the centrifugal ONLY turned freely counterclock wise…. This is correct.. right? The stamp was backwards as I mistakenly went aftermarket.. but if it spins only counterclockwise if its installed correctly, right?? Is there anything I could have done incorrectly to cause this? Had no issues creeping in gear before. Could it be a faulty bearing that works in the sense of engine braking but is not fully working as designed by allowing it to creep? My old man thinks its something to do with the shifting motor gears but they only go in one way, right? (Pic of them attached was prior to clean up and re-greasing) also attached is the lifter cap / triangular ball bearing.. fell out and the way I have setup appeared correct per manual.. attached a video with idle as low as possible and it creeping. If I stop it with the brakes it stalls. Appreciate any input!! This things driving me mad..

Edited Friday at 03:48 PM by Igetby

[shadetree 5,952]

1 hour ago, Igetby said:

Hi everyone!  04 450 foreman es. Replaced one way bearing behind centrifugal due to some engine noise under load and absolutely 0 engine braking as well as the whirling winding down sound when turning off atv. Got it done and noticed it crept in gear.. never did this before. took for a test run and engine noise is gone and engine braking is on point. Crawls like a snail coming off a hill.. but it wont stop creeping in gear! I adjusted clutch freeplay and turned idle as low as possible.. broke loose nut turned adjuster counterclockwise until it started to get tight backed off 1/4 turn and locked it down.. did this multiple times.. still creeps. Keep being told I put one way in backwards…. I confirmed when installed the centrifugal ONLY turned freely counterclock wise…. This is correct.. right? The stamp was backwards as I mistakenly went aftermarket.. but if it spins only counterclockwise if its installed correctly, right?? Is there anything I could have done incorrectly to cause this? Had no issues creeping in gear before. Could it be a faulty bearing that works in the sense of engine braking but is not fully working as designed by allowing it to creep? My old man thinks its something to do with the shifting motor gears but they only go in one way, right? (Pic of them attached was prior to clean up and re-greasing) also attached is the lifter cap / triangular ball bearing.. fell out and the way I have setup appeared correct per manual.. attached a video with idle as low as possible and it creeping. If I stop it with the brakes it stalls. Appreciate any input!! This things driving me mad..

 

IMG_5702.mov 24.18 MB · 0 downloads

creeping in gear means your change clutch disk are not sitting right in the basket. as for the one-way bearing install ?. the words '' this side out '' should be facing you when you drop it in the centrifugal clutch drum. shift motor has nothing to do with the clutch not working right. pull it all back apart, have a look at the change clutch, i'd be willing to bet one of the disk or steel plates are not sitting in the basket right ?.

[Igetby 2]

2 hours ago, shadetree said:

creeping in gear means your change clutch disk are not sitting right in the basket. as for the one-way bearing install ?. the words '' this side out '' should be facing you when you drop it in the centrifugal clutch drum. 
 

it was not! I noticed when I dropped the bearing in with outside facing me it would not spin counter clockwise when installed… so I flipped it around the other way assuming outside would be facing outside of the motor…. But if centrifugal spun counter clockwise it should be correct, right?  
 

I got another bearing and will be tearing it back apart and will check the disks & plates.. but I never removed basket and never had the issue before so wondering if im misunderstanding the centrifugal clutch setup. I thought as long as it would spin counter clockwise when mounted and pov facing the front of it - then its 100% correct.. is that right?

Edited Friday at 06:57 PM by Igetby

[jeepwm69 7,689]

38 minutes ago, Igetby said:

it was not! I noticed when I dropped the bearing in with outside facing me it would not spin counter clockwise when installed… so I flipped it around the other way assuming outside would be facing outside of the motor…. But if centrifugal spun counter clockwise it should be correct, right?  
 

I got another bearing and will be tearing it back apart and will check the disks & plates.. but I never removed basket and never had the issue before so wondering if im misunderstanding the centrifugal clutch setup. I thought as long as it would spin counter clockwise when mounted and pov facing the front of it - then its 100% correct.. is that right?

 

You're not using cheap ebay/amazon bearing are you?  Shindy or OEM only.

[Igetby 2]

16 minutes ago, jeepwm69 said:

 

You're not using cheap ebay/amazon bearing are you?  Shindy or OEM only.

Sadly it was. Got another on the way cuz I felt like that may be the problem. Like its working but maybe not completely as designed? Thinking maybe it being china knock off it’s just not stout enough to prevent it from moving in gear when stopping.. buy once cry once is a motto I understand now especially if thats the culprit. 

[jeepwm69 7,689]

4 hours ago, Igetby said:

Sadly it was. Got another on the way cuz I felt like that may be the problem. Like its working but maybe not completely as designed? Thinking maybe it being china knock off it’s just not stout enough to prevent it from moving in gear when stopping.. buy once cry once is a motto I understand now especially if thats the culprit. 

If the new one gives you any problems get a good one, OEM or Shindy are GTG

[shadetree 5,952]

7 hours ago, Igetby said:

it was not! I noticed when I dropped the bearing in with outside facing me it would not spin counter clockwise when installed… so I flipped it around the other way assuming outside would be facing outside of the motor…. But if centrifugal spun counter clockwise it should be correct, right?  
 

I got another bearing and will be tearing it back apart and will check the disks & plates.. but I never removed basket and never had the issue before so wondering if im misunderstanding the centrifugal clutch setup. I thought as long as it would spin counter clockwise when mounted and pov facing the front of it - then its 100% correct.. is that right?

let's be clear on which/what way you were trying to spin counter clockwise?. once you drop the bearing down in the middle of the drum with the words '' this side out '' facing you..as in..up , you then hold the outer part of the clutch ( the drum ). while spinning the inner part ( the center weight part ) counter clockwise, not the outer part, is this what you did ?...or..did you drop the bearing in with the words '' this side out ''..while trying to spin the outer drum part counter clockwise ?..if this is what you did ?..then you mis-understood what the service manual is telling you. even with a '' china '' bearing?, i find it very hard for them to screw this up when stamping the words '' this side out '' on the part ?!..lol. rip it back part, drop the bearing back down in the drum with the words '' this side out '' facing up, install the center weight back in the drum, put it all back together. WHILE YOU HAVE IT APART !!!!, check to make sure your change clutch is stacked right?. now is the time to check it. pro tip: raise the front up a good ways, so you won't have to drain the oil back out. p.s. they stamp the words '' this side out '' for a very good reason !!..its so you do not install the bearing backwards..lol.

[shadetree 5,952]

1 hour ago, jeepwm69 said:

If the new one gives you any problems get a good one, OEM or Shindy are GTG

i've got 1 dollar..that say's his problem is the way he installed the bearing ?, and the clutch may not be adjusted right ?..but..if the bearing is not installed right ?, then all the clutch adjusting in the world won't make a difference..lol.

[shadetree 5,952]

6 hours ago, Igetby said:

Sadly it was. Got another on the way cuz I felt like that may be the problem. Like its working but maybe not completely as designed? Thinking maybe it being china knock off it’s just not stout enough to prevent it from moving in gear when stopping.. buy once cry once is a motto I understand now especially if thats the culprit. 

its not the bearing..you just installed it wrong is all..i'll bank on this. you MUST install the bearing with the words '' this side out '' facing you as you are looking down into the clutch drum.

[Igetby 2]

16 hours ago, shadetree said:

its not the bearing..you just installed it wrong is all..i'll bank on this. you MUST install the bearing with the words '' this side out '' facing you as you are looking down into the clutch drum.

You were on point my friend and I couldn’t thank you enough! The bearing has been replaced and is now installed correctly. The problem persists!! Im wondering if the adjuster may need replaced?? It was seized and i got it to break loose after soaking in pb a while… I did not take the basket or clutch plates out.. kinda regretting that now… but they look like their in there as they should be to the naked eye.. i’ve installed new basket n plates on a 450r and not too against the idea of just replacing it all… but I didnt have this issue prior to replacing the one way… i jacked the rear end up off the ground while in gear and rolling adjusted clutch play back n forth… no noticeable difference at all by visual or feel.. Very hard to get into neutral only way to surely stop it is killing it.. not one to accept defeat but this one has sure left it tempting.. worse case i’ll replace every thing on it clutch related 😂.. could it be as simple as something going wrong with that adjuster? I feel like if its not seized theres nothing that could go wrong with it..? I know this pic probably wont show any issues even if their there but then again maybe it will.. also noticed that bearing holder in the center of the basket is a little loose? The bearing is fine. Unsure if its supposed to be snug. Appreciate all the help with this one. 

[Igetby 2]

The change clutch.. are you referring to the basket and making sure the clutch plates are stacked correctly? If so I want to say their good as this was never an issue prior to swapping the one-way. & I didnt take any of that apart… unless there could be another reason for doing it.  

17 hours ago, shadetree said:

 WHILE YOU HAVE IT APART !!!!, check to make sure your change clutch is stacked right?. now is the time to check it. pro tip: raise the front up a good ways, so you won't have to drain the oil back out. p.s. they stamp the words '' this side out '' for a very good reason !!..its so you do not install the bearing backwards..lol

 

[shadetree 5,952]

21 minutes ago, Igetby said:

The change clutch.. are you referring to the basket and making sure the clutch plates are stacked correctly? If so I want to say their good as this was never an issue prior to swapping the one-way. & I didnt take any of that apart… unless there could be another reason for doing it.  

ok, you got the one-way bearing right, now time to take the basket ( this is called change clutch ) apart. its posb the disk are sticking together ?..this is very common. also, this could be as simple as adjusting the change clutch ?. either way, take the change clutch apart, inspect the disk and steel plates, they corrode over at times, hence the sticking together. if they stick together ?, then this causes the atv to creep no matter how much you try adjusting the clutch at the front cover.

[shadetree 5,952]

OP, if you are state side ?, pm me your cell number, i'll call you if you want ?.

[Igetby 2]

4 hours ago, shadetree said:

ok, you got the one-way bearing right, now time to take the basket ( this is called change clutch ) apart. its posb the disk are sticking together ?..this is very common. also, this could be as simple as adjusting the change clutch ?. either way, take the change clutch apart, inspect the disk and steel plates, they corrode over at times, hence the sticking together. if they stick together ?, then this causes the atv to creep no matter how much you try adjusting the clutch at the front cover.

That makes sense! I didnt know there was anywhere to adjust it other than outside the case. Looks like i’ve got my plans for tomorrow 😅. Good thing is i’ve gotten pretty quick at getting it apart and back together. Third times a charm right!? Hopefully next will be the last. Sent a pm. Thanks again for the help & advice!!

[shadetree 5,952]

15 hours ago, Igetby said:

That makes sense! I didnt know there was anywhere to adjust it other than outside the case. Looks like i’ve got my plans for tomorrow 😅. Good thing is i’ve gotten pretty quick at getting it apart and back together. Third times a charm right!? Hopefully next will be the last. Sent a pm. Thanks again for the help & advice!!

glad i could/can help ya !..thats what we are here for. you have my number, if ya get stumped ?, just holler at me. keep us posted on what happens.