2004 Foreman 450S...tranny clicking sound in neutral and 1-3

[Halfdog 11]

Had so much fun with my first quad, a 2003 with the çcw/cw problem that little bro and I went out and bought our second quad, a high milage 2004 450s.    We are going through the whole bike, brakes, axles, ball joints, wheel bearings etc.   But big problem is a noise coming from front area of tranny, behind the shift clutch.   And this engine also seems to have the spin down issues after you kill the engine, so we know it needs the one way bearing.   But this clacking sound can be heard while engine running in neutral and 1-3.   Also sometimes a lot of serious clattering while trying to shift gears, sometimes it shifts just fine.  We have the engine out, the clutches off and observe that we can move the main shaft behind the shift clutch on and out maybe 1/8" and make the noise come and go.  Actually make some gear engage and disengage.  I'm hoping to attach video.  Hoping someone can advise if we have to split the case and where to look.   Thanks guys!  Happy holidays!

Edited December 28, 2022 by Halfdog
Deleting video... Adding new videos

[jeepwm69 7,751]

Sounds like the dogs on one of the gears barely contacting the other gear. Probably worn shift forks allowing a little movement back-and-forth on a gear.

 

Split cases and rotate the transmission and you should be able to tell where it’s coming from

[Halfdog 11]

Yes, we note we are getting about 4 clicks per rev.   Still building up the nerve to split the cases!

[Halfdog 11]

So we split these cases, studied the diagrams ever so carefully, and it seemed there was a missing thrust washer at far send of main shaft.   We were hopeful this would solve everything.   Re assembled, honed the cylinder, new rings, etc.  Seemed to shift through gears on the bench.  Started, runs great.

 

Shifts like crap!   Biggest problem is the shifter pedal itself doesn't poo back up from being pushed down.  Have to carefully lift it with you your toe.   Sure seemed like we had everything just so.  Watched videos, studied diagrams.   One thing we also found was little pressed in shift clutch pin in the outer clutch case was loose and wobbly.   We loctited it into place good.  Didn't help.

 

Got it lifted up and about to open it up for the 3rd time.   Suggestions?

[jeepwm69 7,751]

16 hours ago, Halfdog said:

So we split these cases, studied the diagrams ever so carefully, and it seemed there was a missing thrust washer at far send of main shaft.   We were hopeful this would solve everything.   Re assembled, honed the cylinder, new rings, etc.  Seemed to shift through gears on the bench.  Started, runs great.

 

Shifts like crap!   Biggest problem is the shifter pedal itself doesn't poo back up from being pushed down.  Have to carefully lift it with you your toe.   Sure seemed like we had everything just so.  Watched videos, studied diagrams.   One thing we also found was little pressed in shift clutch pin in the outer clutch case was loose and wobbly.   We loctited it into place good.  Didn't help.

 

Got it lifted up and about to open it up for the 3rd time.   Suggestions?

You get the shim under the tensionser for the star wheel on the end of the shift drum?  If not, it won't allow that arm to pivot easily.

 

Next place I'd look is the spring on the shift linkage itself, which is in that same area.

[Halfdog 11]

OK, thanks for the tip.   Poking into this slowly.  With the clutch cover off, and the back wheels raised off the ground, I can easily turn the centrifugal clutch in reverse and shift it through all gears WITHOUT the shift lever sticking!

So I have studied the shift clutch 3 ball mechanism closely and everything seems propper.

Regarding your suggestion about the washer.   I can't quite dissemble that arm without pulling the clutches it would seem.    But I have a question.   The exploded diagrams show qty TWO of item (25) (the washer) right up against each other!!?

We've been watching the Fourwheeler Dr's video closely and right at 32:20 he installs ONE washer at the bottom.   We have and he also (we think) had the second washer last on top of things against the outer case.    Is this correct?

Thanks for all careful advise!    Will pull the clutches next we have too.

 

 

[Fishfiles 20,147]

Looks like he only put one washer at that 32:20 mark in the video , the print shows two washers #25  and the clip #29

[jeepwm69 7,751]

One of those thrust washers omis on the inside of the center case.  One on the outside of the center case.

 

So if you pull front cover, only one there under the front cover

[Halfdog 11]

OK, that helps.   This image from the service manual.   Maybe we have the washer from inside the cases installed out just under the outer case.   Maybe that makes the shift shaft bind.   Will put the cover back on without the washer and see what happens...this weekend...Thanks for the careful help.

[jeepwm69 7,751]

No there's a 3rd shim where you have it in your drawing.  Just shows up in a different schematic. #16

 

 

[Halfdog 11]

Interesting!   We were getting binding (shifter not returning) when we had the end shim, so we assembled without it and it shifted properly.  Almost.   Lots of clattering noise when trying to shift into 5th gear.   So we pulled the engine, split the cases (again) and see worn dogs on the moving 23 tooth gear and the RR shift fork looks bent slightly.    So I have ordered those of eBay.   Uhgg.    No more old farm rigs for me!   Thanks for the close attention!

The other odd thing that happens is that each time we tear this thing down, it really takes a lot to get it pumping oil again.   We crank and crank and don't see oil.   So we use the air compressor to pressurize the crack case while cracking momentarily, then the pump primes and seems to work as normal.   Wondering if a pump rebuild is called for?   10,000 miles on it I think.

[jeepwm69 7,751]

 

Check your oil pump and make sure your dowel pin and oring on there.