jeepwm69 7,719 Posted May 24, 2023 Father in law bought a 2019 Defender HD8 last year, had about 2K miles on it. Weekend before last he decided to run out through my bog of a duck hole and sank it up to the frame in the mud. He spun way past the "I'm stuck, let's hook up a rope" point. Like to the point where I was yelling "You're stuck! Stop spinning it deeper!". Had to winch him out with my Foreman and the wife's Rubicon, took both machines' winches, and had to rehook and pull several times to get him out far enough to move under his own power. Get in the thing out this past weekend and have a little shudder when starting off. I think "Uh oh, stupid belts". As the day progresses, start to get a noise from the rear that sounds like a belt slipping. Also, and perhaps more concerning, is I get a little rattle when coming to a stop. So, my guess is he smoked his belt, and apparently there are little rollers in the secondary clutch that could also be on their way out. Belt replacement looks pretty straight forward with a $30ish tool and a new belt. Taking that secondary clutch off and replacing those rollers looks to be a little more complicated, and to require a few more tools. Anyone does this job on a Can Am who can weigh in? Looks like the Defender board is dead, and appears to be another victim of VerticalScope. No one has answered my questions there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepwm69 7,719 Posted June 5, 2023 Got the belt tool in, belt is off. I can't see anything wrong with the belt, but I guess they can either wear to the point where they slip, or glaze over to where they slip. Still not sure if these rollers are good. With the clutch compressed with the belt tool, there's a rattle when spinning the secondary clutch. Doesn't do it with the belt tool removed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepwm69 7,719 Posted June 5, 2023 One thing I have to say.....nobody on the Can Am forums (all VS from appearances) OR Facebook respond to questions like we do here. It seems that the Can Am folks aren't too helpful, or I have yet to find the Can Am equivalent to this place. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepwm69 7,719 Posted June 15, 2023 Finally dug into this one. The belts most recommended were OEM and Gates Red Line. I saw some naysayers on the Redline, so I went back to OEM. $158 for that. The rollers in the secondary clutch are a known weak point on these, so following this youtube video, I took that apart and found what I expected, which is what was causing the rattling noise. I ordered rollers (lifetime warranty) and the secondary clutch tool from Cubic Dollar Offroad, which is a Canuk outfit. They arrived quickly and hopefully will last longer. The tool was simple and I could have made it myself, but was easier to order one, and it's well machined and much more refined than anything I would have thrown together. Got everything back together yesterday on the clutch, and got it installed back on the machine. Belt should be here in the next couple of days and should be easy to wrap it up then. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TRX Student 151 Posted June 15, 2023 (edited) Hey jeep, I wouldn't call myself an expert, but I know abit about skidoos with the same drive systems. You can buy aftermarket rollers that are a bit stronger and don't snap. The rollers tend to break if you go from wide open to dead stops. Happens to guys machines here all the time riding off trail, in deep snow. I imagine it might have been similar stress in the mud. Wash the new belt in warm/hot soapy water (also tell your father in law to baby the belt for a break in period, 150km or so), before install, blow out primary with compressed air, and get the secondary clean, and scuff both clutches with a scotch brite pad criss crossing surface kinda like honing a cylinder. Edited June 15, 2023 by TRX Student 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TRX Student 151 Posted June 15, 2023 On 6/5/2023 at 12:33 PM, jeepwm69 said: One thing I have to say.....nobody on the Can Am forums (all VS from appearances) OR Facebook respond to questions like we do here. It seems that the Can Am folks aren't too helpful, or I have yet to find the Can Am equivalent to this place. dootalk is where all the activity is. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepwm69 7,719 Posted June 15, 2023 2 hours ago, TRX Student said: Hey jeep, I wouldn't call myself an expert, but I know abit about skidoos with the same drive systems. You can buy aftermarket rollers that are a bit stronger and don't snap. The rollers tend to break if you go from wide open to dead stops. Happens to guys machines here all the time riding off trail, in deep snow. I imagine it might have been similar stress in the mud. Wash the new belt in warm/hot soapy water (also tell your father in law to baby the belt for a break in period, 150km or so), before install, blow out primary with compressed air, and get the secondary clean, and scuff both clutches with a scotch brite pad criss crossing surface kinda like honing a cylinder. I got rollers from "Cubic Dollar offroad" which appear to be a bit stronger. They're in, and I did scuff both sides of the secondary with a scotch brite pad and shine them up. Blew out the belt housing and primary with compressed air. That was a mess. Waiting on a belt now. Will be here tomorrow. Thanks for the suggestion on a forum. I tried 2-3 forums and about as many bookface pages and got little to no response. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TRX Student 151 Posted June 16, 2023 LOL at this Canadian giving some Americans some metric figures. Baby the belt for 100 miles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepwm69 7,719 Posted June 16, 2023 3 hours ago, TRX Student said: LOL at this Canadian giving some Americans some metric figures. Baby the belt for 100 miles. Question, is "Canuk" an offensive term or not? I use it jokingly, but don't intend to be derogatory. We don't see many of yall in Arkansas, and the Canadian stereotype here is more of a "Strange Brew" McKenzie brothers way of talking, so pretty sure that's NOT correct. As for metric vs standard, the entire world uses the metric system...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TRX Student 151 Posted June 19, 2023 On 6/16/2023 at 12:45 PM, jeepwm69 said: Its not derogatory to me, I'm only one canuk, though. Question, is "Canuk" an offensive term or not? I use it jokingly, but don't intend to be derogatory. We don't see many of yall in Arkansas, and the Canadian stereotype here is more of a "Strange Brew" McKenzie brothers way of talking, so pretty sure that's NOT correct. As for metric vs standard, the entire world uses the metric system...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepwm69 7,719 Posted June 20, 2023 On 6/19/2023 at 8:36 AM, TRX Student said: Its not derogatory to me, I'm only one canuk, though Good to know. I certainly don't want it to be, but I'd hate to be throwing it around and find out that I'm stepping on toes. Got the belt on Friday, took a long leisurely ride up and down some gravel roads. Catches much more quickly that it did before. I kept the machine in work mode too, which gets it to engage at lower RPM's. This machine only has a little over 1K miles on it. I thought it had twice that, but was mistaken. Not a lot of miles to already be replacing parts! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TRX Student 151 Posted June 20, 2023 2 hours ago, jeepwm69 said: Good to know. I certainly don't want it to be, but I'd hate to be throwing it around and find out that I'm stepping on toes. Got the belt on Friday, took a long leisurely ride up and down some gravel roads. Catches much more quickly that it did before. I kept the machine in work mode too, which gets it to engage at lower RPM's. This machine only has a little over 1K miles on it. I thought it had twice that, but was mistaken. Not a lot of miles to already be replacing parts! With the deep snow snowmobiles, a brand new machine can snap the rollers. Happens when the track is spinning full speed then comes to a dead stop. (Its all operating errors). The secondary clutch is wide open then slams shut. That force splits the rollers. Its just how the drive systems are designed. Not many materials can hold up to that kind of force. The models put out around 2010-2013 did not have a clutch bolted to a shaft, instead the clutch was pressed on the shaft, all one piece. Folks were splitting those rollers, than had to disassemble the whole drive line from the clutch to the chain case, then work with the clutch mounted to that stupid shaft. Big annoying job. The clutches are bolted to a splined shaft now. For anyone else reading, common symptoms of the rollers splitting are, the machine has trouble coming to a stop, or will move abit at idle (because the secondary is getting held open by bits of roller). also rattle sounds coming from clutch. Not surprised that parts already need replacing. Its just the nature of belt driven machines.. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepwm69 7,719 Posted June 20, 2023 59 minutes ago, TRX Student said: With the deep snow snowmobiles, a brand new machine can snap the rollers. Happens when the track is spinning full speed then comes to a dead stop. (Its all operating errors). The secondary clutch is wide open then slams shut. That force splits the rollers. Its just how the drive systems are designed. Not many materials can hold up to that kind of force. The models put out around 2010-2013 did not have a clutch bolted to a shaft, instead the clutch was pressed on the shaft, all one piece. Folks were splitting those rollers, than had to disassemble the whole drive line from the clutch to the chain case, then work with the clutch mounted to that stupid shaft. Big annoying job. The clutches are bolted to a splined shaft now. For anyone else reading, common symptoms of the rollers splitting are, the machine has trouble coming to a stop, or will move abit at idle (because the secondary is getting held open by bits of roller). also rattle sounds coming from clutch. Not surprised that parts already need replacing. Its just the nature of belt driven machines.. Interestingly enough, the brakes on this thing didn't work worth a crap. FIL took it back to the dealership (where he had an extended warranty) and they told him it needed pads, to the tune of something like $700, and not under the warranty he purchased. I bought new EBC brake pads for it, and the brake pads looked brand new when I took the wheels off. So now he has an extra set of brake pads. Interesting that the drivetrain kept it from stopping. I told my wife on the ride this weekend that the brakes magically started working a lot better! So, for example, if he gets stuck in the mud, not a good idea to rev it out, then just abruptly let off the gas (mud stops the tires quickly)? Seems like a lot to think about when one is in the mud playing! But I'd rather not be doing that job again any time soon. It wasn't too bad, but would rather not do it frequently. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TRX Student 151 Posted June 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, jeepwm69 said: So, for example, if he gets stuck in the mud, not a good idea to rev it out, then just abruptly let off the gas (mud stops the tires quickly)? Pretty much. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites