2007 500 honda rubicon sudden stop going up hill

[jotifi 3]

So here is the problem. While going up a small hill on the farm the rubicon started making a clanging noise for a short period of time and rolled back down the hill. Now won't move forward or reverse, We have looked at the oil pump drive chain and appears to be in tact although loose. Thinking the drive chain had come off or broke we didn't run it for fear of lack of oil. Starts fine and no smoke. Not much of a ATV mechanic but we have started to try to pin the trouble down. If someone could give steps for troubleshooting from here it would be appreciated. I would have bet it was the drive chain but I fear I am not that lucky. Sounded sort of like a bearing breaking also but  so far can't find anything. 

[ATC4ever 1,079]

The rear axle is shaft drive, it sounds like maybe the shaft bearings are gone.    They also make noises similar when the oil level is low & driving on an angle.

Edited November 12, 2023 by ATC4ever

[jotifi 3]

ATC4ever,

 

Thanks so much for your response. I wondered if a bearing that went down. Makes sense. I thoughts sure it was drive chain but of course no such luck. I would guess that is a sealed bearing? So have you replaced those bearings? I hope they can be replaced --- I'm sure half day to days work involved. Any experience on costs and labor time you can send my way would be helpful.

 

Again thanks and I guess I hope that is it???

 

Jotifi

[ATC4ever 1,079]

I havent had to change them in 16 years lol.. & it was on a Kawi. But yes they can be rebuilt. Bit of work if you havent done them before.

[jeepwm69 7,611]

Welcome aboard.  First off, don't keep running the engine until you figure out what you have going on.  The oil pump that drives the Hondamatic also supplies oil to the top end.

 

I'd reach out to Brian from this thread (his email is in there, and he does respond to emails) and tell him what you have going on. 

 

 

I had a similar issue with the 2012 Rubicon that I recently rebuilt.  After sitting for a while and letting the engine cool off, it pulled again.   At this point Brian things that either the Hondamatic is shot due to scored bores/pistons in the Hondamatic pump, which is allowing oil blow by instead of building pressure, or that I have a bit of debris blocking an oil passage.  Either way, engine is going to have to come back apart. 

 

First thing you should do is an oil pressure test.   I have the Honda factory gauge, which was about $75, but Brian sells a gauge on ebay that is cheaper and will get the job done.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/144190959908?hash=item2192737124:g:2x8AAOSwsVFhOA1e&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAAwMFUNUk%2B2N1WuwFDIFH32xzIA9E0vGIApjJypPlx8dXOSfTLk9nfekZ%2Ba250BWChwEV9dEplUStPu1k5ed8xcNTf9JgNu5R3V2MGro%2B9X3u0FmLBQBvaAIRQ5j5b5Wyc7wqulFaCRTwWZG4GfJIsn3Div9rKk4DvB6h1%2F95NZ20vgQFMXl22SvfRf0Ktj5CjK9a3MjUXC5BULtrRfSZM1KnRQzKdn%2FX7wPjB3Ec0CwG%2FjDAKy%2B7YA1JIkUpDu4aUuQ%3D%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR-Kmh5X5Yg

 

My oil readings were normal, so unfortunately I probably have a Hondamatic that was sunk, had sand/grit come in with the water, and ruined the bores on the Hondamatic pump.   I have a couple of extras sitting around (condition unknown on those as well) so I'm going to go through another engine, swap into my 2012, and then pull the Hondamatic out of the current engine and send to Brian to see what he finds. 

 

The Hondamatics are $$$$ and are considered "non-serviceable" by Honda, but I'm trying to educate myself on them a bit, and Brian seems to be the only guy around who knows a lot about them. 

 

Here's the saga of the 2012 I picked up.   Got it dirt cheap, oil pump chain was off when I opened it up, but the engine had already been rebuilt at least once, machine was snorkeled, and had obviously been ridden hard and put up wet.  You will see that the oil pump chains on these aren't particularly tight, but if your oil pump chain is on, unless you have low oil or some sort of blockage, your issue points to the Hondamatic itself.

 

 

[toodeep 1,758]

@jotifiI'll reply here so all information is in one place and questions aren't asked twice. Did you happen to check the oil level before you tore it apart? When the transmission doesn't have enough oil pressure it will make a grinding sound since the pistons can't hold solid pressure against the swash plates. Did you try it in both 2x4 and 4x4 (if not in 4x4 already)?

[jotifi 3]

Thanks for the info. I did try it in 2 and 4 and nothing. No sound or noise of any kind. Outside of the first 3 seconds when it happened no noise. It sounded just like a chain or bearing going down on my old combine I used to have. I did not check the oil pressure since I didn't have a workable device. Afraid to run it for fear of damage to motor if oil pump out also. Thanks to everyone for the help. I am slowly going thru the process of elimination and trial and error. I have help coming from a more experienced atv mechanic since my age is telling on me. We plan to cover all the suggestions.

[jotifi 3]

Update: After tear apart  we noticed the oil pump was slightly scored but didn't think it was bad enough to stop it from moving. Wrong. Bad oil pump. Thanks to the man Brian Bertram for walking us though the troubleshooting. We thought it was the Hondamatic so we sent it to Brian. He couldn't find anything wrong. He is the man. Very honest and most knowledgeable. Fingers crossed it will be trouble free.

[jeepwm69 7,611]

Thanks for the follow up!  I got the transmission back on the back of one of my extra engines tonight, and hopefully will get the whole thing done and installed soon.

 

Have any pics of the scored oil pump?

[jotifi 3]

I will look but don't think I kept one. I sent one to Brian to give advice I think so I will look  Didn't look bad but through process of elimination this is what got us back up and running. Live and learn i guess. We should have checked the oil pressure from get go but of course thought it was the oil pump chain, back axle, bearing , or something simple. I didn't have the device Brian sells on Ebay either at the time.  Brian went through the Hondamatic and determined it was in good shape so we kept at it and finally determined oil pump was the problem. We are not the best at turning wrenches so it takes us a while to figure it out.. I can't say enough about Brian Bertram. Why he is so helpful I don't know but the guy is so accommodating. We need more people like him  I think we live somewhat close to each other. I live 40 miles north of Memphis. Are you near Jonesboro AR?

[jeepwm69 7,611]

6 hours ago, jotifi said:

I will look but don't think I kept one. I sent one to Brian to give advice I think so I will look  Didn't look bad but through process of elimination this is what got us back up and running. Live and learn i guess. We should have checked the oil pressure from get go but of course thought it was the oil pump chain, back axle, bearing , or something simple. I didn't have the device Brian sells on Ebay either at the time.  Brian went through the Hondamatic and determined it was in good shape so we kept at it and finally determined oil pump was the problem. We are not the best at turning wrenches so it takes us a while to figure it out.. I can't say enough about Brian Bertram. Why he is so helpful I don't know but the guy is so accommodating. We need more people like him  I think we live somewhat close to each other. I live 40 miles north of Memphis. Are you near Jonesboro AR?

I totally agree about Brian. He spent an hour and a half on the phone with me one night talking about the different changes that were made Hondamatics and different problems that you see in them. 
Very knowledgeable and very eager to help just to be a good guy. I wish he was on the board more, but not everyone is a forum guy. 

I’m down close to Helena.  
My dad’s family was from up around Covington a couple of generations ago.

 

The Hondamatic  that I’m going to have to pull back out was out of a 2013 that had likely been sunk multiple times before I got it.  It has good oil pressure with my gauge so I’m guessing the Hondamatic  itself will likely be shot, but I’m going to pull it out and send it off to Brian to have him look it over.