Wide front width. Due to disc conversion?

[Bman 17]

I have an 04 Foreman 450es I just picked up and  It's good riding machine but out on the trail with it I noticed one constant issue. Too wide in the front and it would just keep snagging a front tire and yanking the steering on me. Almost flipped me once. Most of the time its fine. This issue really only showed itself on one trail in particular. we ran a very much ATV only trail you 100% could not get anything else to fit width wise down this trail. And it runs along a mountain side. So sheer drop on the right and you had to hug the left most places. I ride with two other foremans. A stock 450s and another 450s with the same disc conversion I have. He was on the trail a week prior and the same issue I'm having he had and it broke his tie rod end.   

 

Both ATVs  have the High lifter disc conversion with the Willwood calipers. He has a stock set of steel wheels from a Yamaha and I have some aftermarket ITP alloy wheels.  I wanna say his fronts are 25x9 and mine are 26x10. Both have the little aluminum spacers. Without the spacer wheel will rub the caliper.  Atleast I know my ITPs will. 

 

The stock 450s the wheels stay within the fenders.  My buddy and mine with disc the wheels poke out considerably more.  Mine may be a tad wider than his but Im not sure. 

 

Is this just how a disc conversion is?  I wouldn't think that it's actually any wider of a stance than stock. There's that little spacer that's in the kit, but the hub should still be where the hub sits even with the drum brakes from factory.  So what gives?  Just my tires being a 10 wide?  Id like to get the tires tucked back under the fenders like the stock. Is that doable with the disc?

Edited November 2, 2023 by Bman
Used the wrong word in a sentence.

[jeepwm69 7,611]

Wheel offset or the spacers is your problem.

 

I'd put stock wheels on with no spacers.  If the caliper rubs, grind the caliper. 

Alternately, you can ditch the conversion (sell it), and put 05-11 Foreman, 05-14 Rubicon, or 06-current Rincon knuckles, hub/rotor assemblies, and calipers on, with 12" stock Honda wheels and it will be exactly the same width as stock.

[Bman 17]

Any of those knuckles change the axles I'd need? 

[jeepwm69 7,611]

46 minutes ago, Bman said:

Any of those knuckles change the axles I'd need? 

 

Axles you have will work fine.  I put some 500 knuckles, hubs, and brakes on my uncle-in-law's 450, as well as my neighbor's 450.  A-arms and CV's you have will work fine with them.

 

Everything bolts on at the ball joints.  The only "iffy" thing is there is the placement/routing of the 450 brake lines as they attach to the caliper.  Works fine, and has not caused a problem for either of the 450's I've done, but not as "neat looking" as I would like it to be.

[shadetree 5,869]

no..its not normal. you have the wrong wheels and tires. i have stock wheels and tire sizes on both of my trx450fm, and neither one of them stick out like yours. it has nothing to do with the disk brake kit, and also..these kits do not come with caliper spacers as you claim ?. these spacers that you mention is what '' someone '' installed..just to get those wrong size tires to clear the brake kit. stock tire size for the trx450 foremans are 25x8x12 front, and 25x10x12 rear. in order to use the high lifter disk brake kit, they say you must have 12 inch rims, in this case, all stock foremans already have 12 inch rims. in your case..you have the wrong off-set tires, with some b.s. spacers added just so those tires could be slapped on the front.

[Bman 17]

I'm referring to these spacers. Top of the image above the calipers. Not caliper spacers but wheel spacers as to help clear for the caliper. Atleast I assume that's why their in the kits. Both mine and his has these spacers. 

 

I know the 10 wides are excessive I'm wanting to put 8 wides back on. Id like to keep the itp wheels but I can find some stock steel wheels if they clear and get the wheels back where I want them. 

[jeepwm69 7,611]

I have 10 wides on almost all of my rigs, no stick out. 

 

I'd get some factory wheels and put on there.  I think your wheel offset is probably the problem. 

[Bman 17]

Yeah when I come across a good set I'll grab them up. I like the added stability, but you just can't ride close to the edges like you need in some spots without the wheels catching.  

[shadetree 5,869]

On 11/4/2023 at 8:48 PM, Bman said:

I'm referring to these spacers. Top of the image above the calipers. Not caliper spacers but wheel spacers as to help clear for the caliper. Atleast I assume that's why their in the kits. Both mine and his has these spacers. 

 

I know the 10 wides are excessive I'm wanting to put 8 wides back on. Id like to keep the itp wheels but I can find some stock steel wheels if they clear and get the wheels back where I want them. 

those spacers are not wheel spacers, ^^^..they are caliper spacers. your issue is your rim off-sets.

[Bman 17]

5 minutes ago, shadetree said:

those spacers are not wheel spacers, ^^^..they are caliper spacers. your issue is your rim off-sets.

 

Oh Im sure the offset is the biggest issue.  Planning on grabbing a new set of steel rims when I get the spare cash for a set and new set of tires. 

 

What makes them caliper spacers as opposed to being considered wheel spacers? Actually curious. I considered them wheel spacers as they go over the studs and space the wheel. 

[shadetree 5,869]

8 minutes ago, Bman said:

 

Oh Im sure the offset is the biggest issue.  Planning on grabbing a new set of steel rims when I get the spare cash for a set and new set of tires. 

 

What makes them caliper spacers as opposed to being considered wheel spacers? Actually curious. I considered them wheel spacers as they go over the studs and space the wheel. 

they call them caliper spacers because most rims have a curve right there at the lug area, without these spacers, the calipers would rub the rim right there. also, you must have a 12 inch rim in order to use this kit, because even with the caliper spacers, the calipers would grind on the rim if they are not 12 inch rims. don't ask me why high lifter calls them caliper spacers ?..they just do..lol.

[Bman 17]

Would like to get a set of 14"s actually.  There's a ton of selection on tires in that size where I live. 

[shadetree 5,869]

9 minutes ago, Bman said:

Would like to get a set of 14"s actually.  There's a ton of selection on tires in that size where I live. 

i try not to get into tire selection here on the forums, why ?..because everyone has their tire they like. myself..i run nothing but stock sizes for my toys, or builds ?. just a heads up: if you go to 14's ?, be ready to spend lots of cash keeping this atv rolling right !. large tires, rims..do damage to the drive line fast !. you have been warned !!. i run ITP at's mudlites on my 450, and it will go through anything i drive through, and i do not go in deep mud..or lakes !..lol.

[Bman 17]

7 minutes ago, shadetree said:

i try not to get into tire selection here on the forums, why ?..because everyone has their tire they like. myself..i run nothing but stock sizes for my toys, or builds ?. just a heads up: if you go to 14's ?, be ready to spend lots of cash keeping this atv rolling right !. large tires, rims..do damage to the drive line fast !. you have been warned !!. i run ITP at's mudlites on my 450, and it will go through anything i drive through, and i do not go in deep mud..or lakes !..lol.

 

There's a lot of side by side riding where I live. Not much in the way of ATVs anymore. And 14s are all over marketplace. Alot of factory take offs too that have zero use on them that the seller is just trying to get rid of for far less than the tires would have been new. 

[shadetree 5,869]

2 hours ago, Bman said:

 

There's a lot of side by side riding where I live. Not much in the way of ATVs anymore. And 14s are all over marketplace. Alot of factory take offs too that have zero use on them that the seller is just trying to get rid of for far less than the tires would have been new. 

sxs are not talked about alot here, most here have atv's. sxs's are a whole diff world when it comes to tires.

[Derf40 139]

BMAN, listen to shade, he is spot on...derf

 

[Bman 17]

I live by Windrock Park in Tennessee. And it's 80% sxs or jeep.  You occasionally will see a few ATVs. To the point alot of local powersport stores hardly carry tires or parts in general for ATVs.  Unless they're newer (2015+)  can am or Polaris. And even then generally those have to go back to the dealer you bought them from to get service or parts. 

 

Shockingly I found a new Honda emergency shift tool at the one by me. Though it had a very old tag on it back before the store changed owners. 

 

[jeepwm69 7,611]

I don't like 14's because you have more rim and less tire between you and the ground.  Makes for a rougher ride.

 

That said, if you find 14's with the proper offset and bolt pattern, in the same overall diameter tire, probably wouldn't notice much difference.

 

You're going to have a hard time finding 14's in the proper offset though, as Honda factory wheels that are 4x110 are all 12", even on the SXS's like the Pioneer 700.  The pioneer 1000 has 14's, but the bolt pattern is 4x137.

 

Try to find some factory Foreman or even Rancher wheels.   The 420's have 12" up front, 11" on the rear, but those would work with your disc brake conversion. 

 

Just make sure if you're looking for Honda take-offs to get SRA wheels.  The rears should be deep dish, while the fronts won't be.  .