Jcz's 450 es rebuild

[jcz 29]

Got my brother's 2002 foreman in the shop for a rebuild. Here is the back story. He bought it new and rode it hard for 1st 10 years or so. About 10 years ago his son melted the piston and it sat still until recently. I wanted to see if I could fix it. Brought in and tore it apart. Piston had heavy damage and cylinder walls were scored. I have put a new top end kit in. A cheap one from ebay. I know I know, it's chinese but he is cheap and we weren't sure if I could even get it going or not. I took motor completely apart to get any fragments out. After a good cleaning and new gaskets it is back together mostly. I have what I think is a faulty shift switch. I do not have neutral light when key is on. I have followed the trouble shooting guide in the service manual and found no continuity to the green/red wire from shift switch in the rear crankcase.
I can jump that wire to make neutral light come on. Motor will run but not shift. So I started the motor using jumper wire then plugged the switch back into wire harness while motor is running and am able to up shift gears using ele. shift button. It will not down shift. I did this while it was on jack stands.

So anything else I need to check before I order a new switch. Also partzilla shows my switch is unavailable. Ebay doesn't have my year model either. Anyone know if the switch from later years will work? Mine has 7 wires and gray plug not the 4 wire white plug.

Edited November 7, 2023 by jcz
Added pics

[shadetree 5,884]

gear position switch is discontuinued, ebay or power sports nation is your only hope. pretty sure i do not have a spare..but i'll check around later when i get a chance, got alot going on right now trying to get ready for deer hunting here in arkansas.

[jcz 29]

Appreciate you looking for me. I have found a couple on ebay but they are for 13 and newer models. But they look the same as mine. 

[shadetree 5,884]

give these folks a call ----> Honda 35759-HN0-771 SWITCH ASSY., CHANGE (speedsupplies.com) , only site i found that may have it in stock ?.

[shadetree 5,884]

Just now, jcz said:

Appreciate you looking for me. I have found a couple on ebay but they are for 13 and newer models. But they look the same as mine. 

i copied the part number, pasted it in google search..found that one ^^^ just now. it must be for year, make, model, but sometimes same part swaps to diff yrs. but the part number ( my way ) must match.

[jcz 29]

Ok, was thinking about calling my local Honda dealer to see if they had an updated part #. I was looking for a bearing or oil seal for a different rancher a few weeks ago and the dealer said part # so and so superseded the # I gave him. 

I had already looked at power sports and rocky mountain atv with no luck.

[shadetree 5,884]

9 hours ago, jcz said:

Ok, was thinking about calling my local Honda dealer to see if they had an updated part #. I was looking for a bearing or oil seal for a different rancher a few weeks ago and the dealer said part # so and so superseded the # I gave him. 

I had already looked at power sports and rocky mountain atv with no luck.

when i need a part ?, i do a google search, most times it points to partzilla, i can't stand partzilla any more because of their prices..lol. i will look at all places that '' may '' have it by going to the site. rocky mountain atv is my first place, if they do not have it ?, then ebay, then right on down the list of places that show the part number. keep in mind, some models swap over to other models, even if the model and year changes ?. this is a good thing to know !.

[jcz 29]

Well funny thing, I got off work ( I work nights) went to the shop to tear out the old sensor. Did a continuity check while it was out of the case. Rotated it a few times decided to try it again and it works. Don't know how or why but it does. 

I just started it up and ran it thru the gears up on the table. Shifted up and down fine. 

Thank the good lord, I'm going to put it back together and drive it around later this week. 

Thanks for your help and suggestions so far. 

 

@AKATV I will need your help next. The display is hard to see. It is 2002 trx450fe here are a couple of pics. If you don't mind let me know what you think

 

[AKATV 822]

Hey great troubleshooting!

Rotating the gear position switch probably cleaned off some oxidation on the contacts

 I see the neutral LED light was not on in the pictures, must have been before you fixed the switch?

 Your display looks good other than a bit of corrosion on the bottom of circuit board, might want to check all buttons function

Your polarization films and back light filter are UV/Sun damaged from 20+ years, but that is par

for the course on these. It can be repaired to look new again

 I wish you the best of luck on that  top end kit- you should of bored old one and got a Honda or

good Shindy or similar piston (not China) ,but I get it. I have also done it and reminded myself that I knew better

when i was tearing my engine back down a second time to remove grenaded, cheap piston parts

thankful it did not take out my crankshaft

I will send my contact info to your message box if you would like to look into a speedometer repair

Keep us posted the rebuild, love to follow along for the old rebuilds

How did you get your ATV up on the table/pallets?

Also, kind of hard to melt a piston on one of these unless low on oil or fan was not working

(or oil filter was in backwards..easy to do)

Check to make sure fan and fan controller is working and oil cooler is not plugged up with mud

(unless you already know what burned it up)

I see you mentioned his son burned it up, I have 3 of them (sons) so the possibilities are endless... lol

-AKATV

Edited November 7, 2023 by AKATV

[jeepwm69 7,619]

3 hours ago, AKATV said:

Also, kind of hard to melt a piston on one of these unless low on oil or fan was not working

(or oil filter was in backwards..easy to do)

 

 

I've seen quite a few 450's that were run with low/no oil because the shifter seal backed out, allowing all the oil to seep out of the engine.

 

That's what happened to the one I rebuild for my neighbor, and I've seen a few more instances of it online.

[jcz 29]

@AKATV you are spot on. His fan was locked up too. Not to mention he had a bit of sludge in the bottom of motor when I pulled it apart. I still have the old cylinder so I guess boring it is still an option if this one doesn't hold up. 
Yes I took the pic of the display before fixing the neutral light issue. I have a John Deere tractor with pallet forks. I use it to put the bike on the table. It makes working on them so much better. Small step stool to get to the top parts everything else in easily reached and eye level.
I got your PM and will contact you about that and possibly the display on my rancher at the same time. No rush on them so if you are busy they can wait. 

[shadetree 5,884]

1 hour ago, jcz said:

@AKATV you are spot on. His fan was locked up too. Not to mention he had a bit of sludge in the bottom of motor when I pulled it apart. I still have the old cylinder so I guess boring it is still an option if this one doesn't hold up. 
Yes I took the pic of the display before fixing the neutral light issue. I have a John Deere tractor with pallet forks. I use it to put the bike on the table. It makes working on them so much better. Small step stool to get to the top parts everything else in easily reached and eye level.
I got your PM and will contact you about that and possibly the display on my rancher at the same time. No rush on them so if you are busy they can wait. 

please make sure you check the connecting rod BEFORE you go putting a top end back on it ?!!!. time after time, atv owners toss top ends on an engine, failing to inspect the rod for any side to side, or up and down play ?, if this is the case ?, you MUST replace the connecting rod,or the whole crank. be sure to replace the crank bearings !!!.

[jcz 29]

This one is already back together. I have run it thru initial break in and changed the oil. I am putting the essentials back on so I can ride it for a bit for the next oil change. I didn't feel any excess play in the connecting rod or crank when i had it apart.

[shadetree 5,884]

1 hour ago, jcz said:

This one is already back together. I have run it thru initial break in and changed the oil. I am putting the essentials back on so I can ride it for a bit for the next oil change. I didn't feel any excess play in the connecting rod or crank when i had it apart.

whewww..glad you were smart enough to check the rod !. good deal :-).

[jcz 29]

Going to take it around the yard for a few laps today. Still need to work out the brakes and probably some front wheel bearings. 

 

 

Anyone happen to have an air filter canister laying around? It would seem as though the whole filter got tossed out when this bike was taken apart. I got a new outer filter but can't find the metal inner part. I know I can buy a new one but hope someone here may had one from a parts bike they'd be willing to let go of.

Also need to source a new drain screw in the bottom of the carb. This one had some rust on the tip and it will not seal all the way. I put a small amount of hondabond on it to hold for now. 

[shadetree 5,884]

On 11/10/2023 at 8:18 AM, jcz said:

Going to take it around the yard for a few laps today. Still need to work out the brakes and probably some front wheel bearings. 

 

 

Anyone happen to have an air filter canister laying around? It would seem as though the whole filter got tossed out when this bike was taken apart. I got a new outer filter but can't find the metal inner part. I know I can buy a new one but hope someone here may had one from a parts bike they'd be willing to let go of.

Also need to source a new drain screw in the bottom of the carb. This one had some rust on the tip and it will not seal all the way. I put a small amount of hondabond on it to hold for now. 

check on ebay for the air filter element, you can still buy them new, but be warned, they are not cheap !. they are pretty hard to come by used, i had one, but used it on my last 450 build. even the air box itself is discontinued, so do not damage yours !. as for the drain screw, sand down the tip at the correct angle, then use a o-ring on the end of it like it should have. just checked ebay for air filter element, save your time, they are asking over retail price for used !..go buy a new one from rocky mountain atv, for $ 79.30 for brand new !, and free shipping.

[jcz 29]

I got the remaining parts I am waiting on in this week. New petcock, mastercylinder (PSN)  with rebuild kit, choke cable, and battery. Hope to get it put together this weekend.

 

I have run it around the house a few times now and it seems to be running pretty good. Had to adjust the valves after a couple heat cycles. Checked the torque on the head bolts. Should be good to go. 
Still have to get the air cleaner worked out. And it has no brakes but hopefully I can get the fronts stopping with master cylinder this weekend.