New SE member - dreaded ES shift issues :-(

[Infinitysurf 7]

Hey everyone,

Grew up riding in the MA sand pits and learning how to wrench as my brother & I broke our dirt bikes and quads. Enjoy maintaining and fixing everything I own, haven't been to a dealer for work in over 20yrs. Learned the value a long time ago of these online forums where you can typically find any answer you need if your willing to search hard enough.

Have picked up a passel of quads in the last 6 months as my daughters are showing an interest in riding again, 4 of them are Honda Recons and I got deals on each one since they all needed repairs. The Recon's are 04 trx250tm & 05/13/16 trx250te's. The 13 had been in a rollover accident and clearly not been maintained well so I had it stripped down to the frame and along with other things had to replace every bearing on the quad including the swingarm & the rear final gear (big learning curve there figuring out how to get some of those bearings removed!). Had no issues troubleshooting & repairing the 04/13/16 models and recently picked up the 05 which was in pieces when I bought it. Owner said it was having some 4th gear shifting issue (tho he could not explain the problem very well) and his father had taken it apart to attempt a repair and couldn't figure out how the issue or how to re-assemble everything, funny thing was that he had removed the swingarm and the rear stator cover looking for the clutch. Got it cheap and from what I have seen the engine doesn't have many hours on it for the age and overall the quad is in great shape. Only downer is the aftermarket carb someone put on it at some point.

 

Anyway, re-built the swingarm, got everything re-assembled & got it started up and running the other day tho I can already tell this aftermarket carb is junk! I had already gone thru every connection with dielectric grease, cleaned/tightened all grounds and adjusted the clutch. Also disassembled/cleaned/tested the shift motor & removed the oem grease from the reduction gears as well as properly packed those bearings & gears with synthetic grease. After getting it running, I got zero response from pushing the up/down ES buttons and after double checking all connections I got the emergency shifter out and was able to shift it manually into reverse and 1st gear. Drove it around the house briefly in 1st and it didn't seem to want to go into 2nd gear using emergency shifter so back into the garage it went. The 1st gear code was flashing 3x's which says angle sensor.... changed the sensor but as expected that did not change the behavior and still flashing the same code. Didnt expect to resolve anything by doing this but I removed the clutch cover last night and all those internals look really good, so I have re-assembled. I have tested the shift motor and the left handlebar switches and that all seems to check out altho I have ordered a new switch assembly to be sure. I am starting to think that the ECM may be bad but am unsure how to verify that is actually the issue. My weakest area in wrenching would be the electrical side of things. From what I can tell the ECU is getting the signal but then it is not relaying that signal to the shift motor. Having the new left handlebar assembly in-hand at the end of the week should tell me if that is right or wrong? Crossing fingers that assembly is the issue and its not the ECM but considering every other button on that assembly works as it should except the ES buttons, I am guessing it wont be that easy.

 

Side note... I have a service manual that says it covers 2005-2013 but now that I have gotten into this 05 deeper I have noticed that the 05/06 models have some differences in the wiring harnesses, is there an 05/06 service manual available anywhere? I looked at the service manual link and it directs me to google drive download and I don't see any Honda model breakdowns there and it says I dont have permission to download anything. I need to figure out how to diagnose if the ECM is actually the issue and know there is a way to check for resistance going to the ECM and then from the ECM to the ES....one of the main differences I have found with the 05/06 model is different pins at the harness for the left handlebar controls as the 07+ includes the brake sensor wires. I was going to use parts from my 2013 to narrow down the ES issues and cannot since those pins are different sizes. Sorry for the long post, just wanted to be detailed on what I had already tried and appreciate any pointers!

[Infinitysurf 7]

Was like this when I bought the 05

[Infinitysurf 7]

How it sits right now

[Infinitysurf 7]

I know everyone likes pics... so here is a before & after of the 2013

[_Wilson_™ 6,585]

Nice!….yellow plastic had to go Eh ? I know someone else who would agree with that choice. 

[Infinitysurf 7]

7 minutes ago, _Wilson_™ said:

Nice!….yellow plastic had to go Eh ? I know someone else who would agree with that choice. 

Lol, not crazy about the yellow on the 2005 but don't hate it enough to spend the money for new plastics. The last pic showing the red Recon is of a 2013 that I also have

[shadetree 5,948]

es's are nothing but money pits. i have worked on a few, and hate them..lol. but what i can tell you is, most of the shifting prob's come from a bad angle sensor ?, bad connections ?, weak battery ?. last es i worked on awhile back that i fixed, discovered that the shifting motor had broken magnets inside the housing. i stay manual shifts, easy to work on, if and when they go bad ?!..lol.

[Infinitysurf 7]

1 hour ago, shadetree said:

es's are nothing but money pits. i have worked on a few, and hate them..lol. but what i can tell you is, most of the shifting prob's come from a bad angle sensor ?, bad connections ?, weak battery ?. last es i worked on awhile back that i fixed, discovered that the shifting motor had broken magnets inside the housing. i stay manual shifts, easy to work on, if and when they go bad ?!..lol.

I feel you for sure and in future will be staying away from ES. Initially got these cause I took the family on a Costa Rica trip in April and we took a really fun 4 wheeler ride one day and the quads they used had the ES, my daughters had a blast, thot the button shift was easy for them to control and wanted to start riding here so I got a couple before really looking into the ES reviews which is something I know better on, lol.

Anyway I am thinking on this 05 model that if the new left handlebar control assembly does not fix the issue where no signal is getting to the shift motor, I may just get one of those shift bypass kits since I understand that bypasses the ECM signals and my gut feeling on what's going on with this one is that the ECM is likely the core issue. Any thoughts on using one of those bypass kits if it prevents me from having to buy a new ECM? 

On the magnet comment...after getting my 2016 model I found the starter not working.... took it apart to replace the brushes thinking that was the likely culprit and found 1 of the 5 magnets was dislodged/loose inside the starter housing. Cleaned everything up real good and used JB weld epoxy to re-secure the magnet in place and its been working great for the last few months! As long as my daughters follow thru and use the machines I figure I will start trading them for foot shift models in future one I can show them how easy it is too learn that as well. Appreciate the comment and input!

[shadetree 5,948]

10 minutes ago, Infinitysurf said:

I feel you for sure and in future will be staying away from ES. Initially got these cause I took the family on a Costa Rica trip in April and we took a really fun 4 wheeler ride one day and the quads they used had the ES, my daughters had a blast, thot the button shift was easy for them to control and wanted to start riding here so I got a couple before really looking into the ES reviews which is something I know better on, lol.

Anyway I am thinking on this 05 model that if the new left handlebar control assembly does not fix the issue where no signal is getting to the shift motor, I may just get one of those shift bypass kits since I understand that bypasses the ECM signals and my gut feeling on what's going on with this one is that the ECM is likely the core issue. Any thoughts on using one of those bypass kits if it prevents me from having to buy a new ECM? 

On the magnet comment...after getting my 2016 model I found the starter not working.... took it apart to replace the brushes thinking that was the likely culprit and found 1 of the 5 magnets was dislodged/loose inside the starter housing. Cleaned everything up real good and used JB weld epoxy to re-secure the magnet in place and its been working great for the last few months! As long as my daughters follow thru and use the machines I figure I will start trading them for foot shift models in future one I can show them how easy it is too learn that as well. Appreciate the comment and input!

i taught my gf how to ride a manual shift, and up to that point ?..she's never ever even sat on one !..lol. i highly doubt its going to be the button shifter part ?, but..it could happen !. check everything i listed above ^^, if its not one of those ?, then chances are..it will be the ecm. as for the by-pass thing ?, some have done it , i have not ever messed with them, as i said..i try to stay far far away from any es atv !..lol.

[Infinitysurf 7]

Thread update: Since posting this morning... I have figured out the issue of why the left handlebar assembly is not talking to the ECM. Not to say there wont be something else once this is solved somehow but at least now I know the main problem. So I unplugged the 22p connector at the ECM and used my continuity tester to check the wires at that harness. Service manaul says you basically check continuity between red/black and white/blue as your pushing the up/down button and the red/black and yellow/white (don't remember which is up/down).... but with everything else plugged in and testing at the unplugged 22p harness at ECM, zero continuity for either button. So then I did the same testing but isolated the left handlebar assembly only and everything there worked perfectly. So then I tested each wire between the 22p harness that plugs into the ECU and at the unplugged harness where the handlebar assembly normally plugs in. I have continuity at the white/blue and also at the yellow/white but ZERO at the red/black. Since that wire is common for both the up/down switch it made a lot more sense why neither button would tell the ECM to shift gears.

 

So.... I either have a wire broken inside the harness OR where the wire/pin connects at one of the harness has a bad connection. I have checked everything visible very carefully and see no obvious damage so I am hoping its a bad connection at the pin since that is fixable. I am gonna do a little searching to see if there is any instructions on how to re-pin the connections. If its not that and the wire is broken somewhere there is no chance I will be able to pinpoint the break easily and would be better for me too just run another separate wire as long as I can find the correct pins required to do that. Any chance anyone knows which pins Honda uses and if that's something I can buy so I can fix it myself? Only other option I know of is too replace the entire harness which I hope to avoid. I havent seen the bypass kit yet so not sure if that solves this without me repairing the wires but my hope is that I can fix it back to oem now that I have pinpointed the problem and not have to use the bypass kit for the shifting.

[shadetree 5,948]

5 minutes ago, Infinitysurf said:

Thread update: Since posting this morning... I have figured out the issue of why the left handlebar assembly is not talking to the ECM. Not to say there wont be something else once this is solved somehow but at least now I know the main problem. So I unplugged the 22p connector at the ECM and used my continuity tester to check the wires at that harness. Service manaul says you basically check continuity between red/black and white/blue as your pushing the up/down button and the red/black and yellow/white (don't remember which is up/down).... but with everything else plugged in and testing at the unplugged 22p harness at ECM, zero continuity for either button. So then I did the same testing but isolated the left handlebar assembly only and everything there worked perfectly. So then I tested each wire between the 22p harness that plugs into the ECU and at the unplugged harness where the handlebar assembly normally plugs in. I have continuity at the white/blue and also at the yellow/white but ZERO at the red/black. Since that wire is common for both the up/down switch it made a lot more sense why neither button would tell the ECM to shift gears.

 

So.... I either have a wire broken inside the harness OR where the wire/pin connects at one of the harness has a bad connection. I have checked everything visible very carefully and see no obvious damage so I am hoping its a bad connection at the pin since that is fixable. I am gonna do a little searching to see if there is any instructions on how to re-pin the connections. If its not that and the wire is broken somewhere there is no chance I will be able to pinpoint the break easily and would be better for me too just run another separate wire as long as I can find the correct pins required to do that. Any chance anyone knows which pins Honda uses and if that's something I can buy so I can fix it myself? Only other option I know of is too replace the entire harness which I hope to avoid. I havent seen the bypass kit yet so not sure if that solves this without me repairing the wires but my hope is that I can fix it back to oem now that I have pinpointed the problem and not have to use the bypass kit for the shifting.

i would look on power sports nation, and see if they have a wire harness in stock ?, they stand behind what they sell. you can also look on ebay. both places will run neck and neck in prices ?,but power sports nation is easier to deal with, used them a lot in the past, very good company !.

[Infinitysurf 7]

3 hours ago, shadetree said:

i would look on power sports nation, and see if they have a wire harness in stock ?, they stand behind what they sell. you can also look on ebay. both places will run neck and neck in prices ?,but power sports nation is easier to deal with, used them a lot in the past, very good company !.

 

I will check them out, thank you! 1st time hearing that name and I use ebay plenty.

[Infinitysurf 7]

Final update for this thread... I realized the harness length between the ECM and the plug wasn't that long so I just unwrapped it all and inspected. Figured out how to remove the caps and then the pins but the issue ended up being in the middle of harness where the wire had been rubbing against a piece of metal so got it repaired (solder & heat shrink) & taped it all back up. At ECM at the 4p connector there is also an orange & green wire which is what the ECM sends the 12 volt signal out to the shift motor and I noticed one of those wires was pulling out of that connector slightly  cause the harness has such a hard bend in it there, would have been an issue at some point so also corrected that.

Just finished live testing everything and the ES system is now working great. Big relief this issue didn't turn into a marathon! Thanks for the comments

[shadetree 5,948]

8 minutes ago, Infinitysurf said:

Final update for this thread... I realized the harness length between the ECM and the plug wasn't that long so I just unwrapped it all and inspected. Figured out how to remove the caps and then the pins but the issue ended up being in the middle of harness where the wire had been rubbing against a piece of metal so got it repaired (solder & heat shrink) & taped it all back up. At ECM at the 4p connector there is also an orange & green wire which is what the ECM sends the 12 volt signal out to the shift motor and I noticed one of those wires was pulling out of that connector slightly  cause the harness has such a hard bend in it there, would have been an issue at some point so also corrected that.

Just finished live testing everything and the ES system is now working great. Big relief this issue didn't turn into a marathon! Thanks for the comments

good deal !, thank you for coming back, and letting us know what the issue was ?, and that you fixed it !. someone else may run into this very same issue ?, and this thread will help them as well !.

[jeepwm69 7,681]

On 5/14/2024 at 9:27 AM, Infinitysurf said:

Lol, not crazy about the yellow on the 2005 but don't hate it enough to spend the money for new plastics. The last pic showing the red Recon is of a 2013 that I also have

 

That's a poke at Shadetree.  He's taken on several basketcase projects over the years and for some reason the yellow machines seem to give him the biggest problems, to the point that yellow machines tend to trigger him a bit🤣

 

We like to tease him, but he's helped more people fix Hondas over the years than the rest of us combined.   He knows his stuff!

 

As for the wiring issue, glad you found it, and that you reported what you found.  Thank you!   It will very likely help someone in the future with a similar issue.

[shadetree 5,948]

51 minutes ago, jeepwm69 said:

 

That's a poke at Shadetree.  He's taken on several basketcase projects over the years and for some reason the yellow machines seem to give him the biggest problems, to the point that yellow machines tend to trigger him a bit🤣

 

We like to tease him, but he's helped more people fix Hondas over the years than the rest of us combined.   He knows his stuff!

 

As for the wiring issue, glad you found it, and that you reported what you found.  Thank you!   It will very likely help someone in the future with a similar issue.

yes..yellow is a curse too me !..lol.