Burns370R 1 Posted July 19, 2021 I bought a 01 Rancher ES that the ES isnt working. My guess is the shift angle sensor, as it does not try to shift at all, and doesnt display a gear on the dash. Will a faulty shift angle sensor not show the current gear position? The atv is in neutral, but it shows -- on the gear display. Often is that just a sensor failure, or is there a common mechanical failure on the end of the shift drum that could be an issue? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepwm69 6,877 Posted July 19, 2021 Welcome aboard. Could be the gear position switch in the back of the engine as well. The early 350 Ranchers had a weak gear shift drum that would break off at the back, and the back of the drum is what tells the ECU and meter which gear you're in. Try putting a 12mm socket on the emergency shifter shaft which is where a footshifter would be on a foot shift machine (unless you have the emergency shifter) . See if it will shift manually, and if it does, what does the meter show then? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Burns370R 1 Posted July 19, 2021 Well the previous owner welded a lever to the shift shaft and it shifts fine via the foot shifter. The display doesnt work most of the time, i do have a spare screen i was going to try out. So what does the front angle sensor do if its the rear sensor that keeps count of what gear its in? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shadetree 5,502 Posted July 19, 2021 chances are, the back end of the shift drum has snapped off, and is not telling the display or angle sensor what gear you are in. regardless if you ca shift it or not with the foot shift lever welded on ?, this has no effect on the gear read out on the display. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Burns370R 1 Posted July 20, 2021 I was just trying to paint a picture of the machine. The shifter being welded has nothing to do with this. What year Ranchers had the weak shift drum? So what does the front sensor vs the rear sensor do? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepwm69 6,877 Posted July 20, 2021 18 hours ago, Burns370R said: Well the previous owner welded a lever to the shift shaft and it shifts fine via the foot shifter. The display doesnt work most of the time, i do have a spare screen i was going to try out. So what does the front angle sensor do if its the rear sensor that keeps count of what gear its in? What do you get when the display does work? Does it show gears properly? The weak shift drums were 00 and some 01's. 02-06 they enlarged the rear of the shift drum, and eliminated a bearing in the crankcase, so the crankcases are the same, and the later shift drums will work in the early crankcases once you knock out that bearing (which is what I did with the 00 engine in my daughter's 350). If your angle sensor is bad your ES will not work and your display will blink an error code. If you aren't even showing Neutral, I'd guess your shift drum end has broken off. You gotta get your display working before you worry about the ES system. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shadetree 5,502 Posted July 20, 2021 2 hours ago, Burns370R said: I was just trying to paint a picture of the machine. The shifter being welded has nothing to do with this. What year Ranchers had the weak shift drum? So what does the front sensor vs the rear sensor do? early ranchers, such as yours, . no difference between front and rear speed sensor, other than what model its on ?. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shadetree 5,502 Posted July 20, 2021 jeep forgot to tell you, the engine has to be split , in order to replace the shift drum. you can pull the rear cover with engine still in frame, tight fit to remove cover, but can be done . once rear cover is off, you can use a flat blade screw driver to spin the back end of the shift drum, you will see rear quickly if the end is broken off if it spins real easy ?. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepwm69 6,877 Posted July 20, 2021 1 hour ago, shadetree said: early ranchers, such as yours, . no difference between front and rear speed sensor, other than what model its on ?. I think he was asking the difference in the gear position switch and the angle sensor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shadetree 5,502 Posted July 20, 2021 1 hour ago, jeepwm69 said: I think he was asking the difference in the gear position switch and the angle sensor. you might be right ?, i thought he was talking about the speed sensors, he should have narrowed it down huh ?..lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Burns370R 1 Posted July 21, 2021 Okay, so I replaced the display, and now the gear indicator is working perfectly when I manually shift it. still no ES though. So my guess is the angle sensor. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Burns370R 1 Posted July 21, 2021 16 hours ago, shadetree said: you might be right ?, i thought he was talking about the speed sensors, he should have narrowed it down huh ?..lol. If you go to the 3rd post, i think i clearly spell it out???? "So what does the front angle sensor do if its the rear sensor that keeps count of what gear its in? " Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepwm69 6,877 Posted July 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Burns370R said: Okay, so I replaced the display, and now the gear indicator is working perfectly when I manually shift it. still no ES though. So my guess is the angle sensor. Well that tell us your gear position switch is good. If the angle sensor is bad, it should throw an error code. Is the gear position blinking or solid? If blinking, count the blinks. Should be a combination of long blinks and rapid blinks. If you don't have a code, it's probably NOT the angle sensor. Before you go throwing parts at it, I'd run some tests beforehand. Could be your shift motor, your switches on the handlebar, or lots of other things. Do some tests before you dump money on an angle sensor. Factory service manual is available free here, and has troubleshooting instructions in it for ES not functioning And one more thing, ONLY use Honda parts on the ES stuff. The Amazon/chyna/aftermarket stuff rarely works on these things, and if you get aftermarket crap, it won't work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Burns370R 1 Posted July 21, 2021 Just now, jeepwm69 said: Well that tell us your gear position switch is good. If the angle sensor is bad, it should throw an error code. Is the gear position blinking or solid? If blinking, count the blinks. Should be a combination of long blinks and rapid blinks. If you don't have a code, it's probably NOT the angle sensor. Before you go throwing parts at it, I'd run some tests beforehand. Could be your shift motor, your switches on the handlebar, or lots of other things. Do some tests before you dump money on an angle sensor. Factory service manual is available free here, and has troubleshooting instructions in it for ES not functioning And one more thing, ONLY use Honda parts on the ES stuff. The Amazon/chyna/aftermarket stuff rarely works on these things, and if you get aftermarket crap, it won't work. Thank you ! Just now, jeepwm69 said: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepwm69 6,877 Posted July 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, Burns370R said: Thank you ! You're welcome. I'm not a fan of the ES machines, and converted my daughters 350 to footshift (had to rebuild the motor anyway, so swapped in the proper splined shift shaft and used a factory shifter). That said, when you shift hers using the footshifter, it throws that angle sensor code every time, because the computer senses a shift (via the angle sensor) that it did not initiate, so throws the error code. Something I just thought about...on my kid's, when I put the footshifter on it, I pulled the shift motor on the front of the motor and removed the gears underneath (so I'm not fighting the shift motor every time I shift). It's possible that the previous owner did the same to yours. With the engine off, key on, when you hit the ES buttons do you hear any noises from the shift motor at all? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Burns370R 1 Posted July 29, 2021 No blinking of the N. So i assume no codes. The motor does not try to shift at all when i hit the buttons. I think its odd that it doesnt throw any codes. I bought an OEM angle sensor. I will try to put that on tonight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Burns370R 1 Posted July 30, 2021 Well, I had already purchased a new Angle sensor so I swapped it in. No dice, still doesnt do anything. So I tried to get the self diagnostics to work, and either there are no codes, or I am not getting it done correctly. So I moved through the troubleshooting and have made it to the part it wants me to test the gear indicator. If I manually shift it, it displays ever gear correctly. So im guess its not that. I plugged in a shift motor that I bench tested and still nothing. I also swapped the ECU and the black box up by the right front wheel with ones i have spares of (unconfirmed they are functional) no change. I have verified i have continuity from the angle sensor to the ecu. Obviously there are a ton more steps in the troubleshooting guide yet, but I do not think it should be this hard. The fact that its not even trying to shift is odd, yet it throws no codes (assuming Im doing the button/key funtions correctly) I do have another ES shifter setup that I tried and still no change. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 17,867 Posted July 30, 2021 39 minutes ago, Burns370R said: Obviously there are a ton more steps in the troubleshooting guide yet, but I do not think it should be this hard. We got some hot shot ES troubleshooters here on the forum , wonder where they all are at !!! Some say they never have problems with ES , I have seen people never get it right , spend untold hours of frustration and money just to have ES fail time after time , soon as they thought they had it fix , it flairs up again Do you really need ES for special needs , if not , I would buy the ES by-pass wiring harness or a for sale sign https://hondaesshiftkit.com/products/ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Burns370R 1 Posted July 30, 2021 My plan is to fix it and sell it. Id hate to rig it with a bypass kit and sell it. But maybe thats what i will have to do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 17,867 Posted July 30, 2021 I'd guess you already heard the drill , you need a good hot battery with reserve for ES to function properly , all the plugs need to be clean and dielectric greased , and seen you just changed the angle sensor , believe there is a little bit of adjusting when you install it , some kind of spring load or what not , I'm not a ES guy About $100 for a by-pass harness is cheap compared to what you might spend to get it working right , the change module for that ATV is $400+ dollars US Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Burns370R 1 Posted July 30, 2021 On the bypass kit, how does it know your in top gear or in reverse and stop you from going the wrong direction with the motor? I guess shift in a way its not supposed to ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 17,867 Posted July 30, 2021 2 hours ago, Burns370R said: On the bypass kit, how does it know your in top gear or in reverse and stop you from going the wrong direction with the motor? I guess shift in a way its not supposed to ? As far as reverse goes , I think the 2001 350 has a reverse lock out gizmo on the left brake lever , so slamming it in reverse isn't a factor ---as far as which gear your in , I don't know how the by pass is set up , I do know your year is in the span available , I don't think all of the ES's will tell you that anyways , some just show like 1st and 5th ---- my foot shift atvs don't tell me which gear I am in and it really isn't needed , just a neutral light and reverse light is all you need Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
