2001 Honda 350es Fourtrax no spark

[retro 4,048]

6 minutes ago, shadetree said:

then i would say bad reg/rec ?..or bad c.d.i. ?..he said the c.d.i.smelt burnt ?..lights blown, tells me the reg/rec went out, and these parts got fried.

 

Yeah, the OP replaced both of those parts with used OEM parts from the same year & model Rancher after the original CDI fried. Now after replacing those parts he has found open circuits on the Green/White wire and the Black/Yellow wire in the CDI harness connector. We're trying to test the other wires in the CDI connector now to see whether there are any more open wires in that connector. Now you're all caught up. :)

[retro 4,048]

Do you have soldering equipment and some rosin core electrical solder @Chesnuts54? Got some small diameter shrink tubing you can use for sealing up soldered wire connections? 

[Chesnuts54 15]

@retro so I’ve discovering the open circuit in the black/yellow wire was just my mistake. I tested for continuity but I didn’t have the sound on so It didn’t beep. I assumed the wire was broke but it isn’t. However, when putting my multimeter leads to ground and Green/White still doesn’t give me any voltage readings. 
 

I also have soldering equipment yes! But I do need to pick up some shrink tubing.
 

 

 

[Chesnuts54 15]

10 hours ago, retro said:

 

Ok, it appears that the Green/White wire is not providing a frame ground like it should. You mentioned earlier that there is no continuity in the Black/yellow wire between the CDI and the Ign coil as well. So ya got at least two wires that read open so far....

 

Lets test as many others as we can, eh?

 

With the Ign switch on, trans in neutral, multimeter on DC volts mode, poke your Red meter lead into the Black/White terminal inside the CDI harness connector and poke your Black meter lead into the Light Green/Red wire terminal inside the CDI harness connector. You should measure battery voltage. If not, holler....

 

With the Ign. switch off, multimeter in Resistance mode, poke the Red meter lead into the Light Blue wire terminal inside the CDI harness connector and poke your Black meter lead onto a clean frame ground. You should measure between 9.5k ohms and 10.5k ohms (9,500 ohms and 10,500 ohms) resistance. If not, holler....

 

With the Ign. switch off, multimeter in Resistance mode, poke the Red meter lead into the Blue/Yellow wire terminal inside the CDI harness connector and poke your Black meter lead onto a clean frame ground. You should measure somewhere around 300 to 335 ohms resistance. If not, holler....

 

Thanks for your patience!

I’m just seeing these steps! I will try them out in about a hour or so and keep you posted! I appreciate all your help! 
 

Thanks a million! 

[Chesnuts54 15]

1 hour ago, Chesnuts54 said:

I’m just seeing these steps! I will try them out in about a hour or so and keep you posted! I appreciate all your help! 
 

Thanks a million! 

@retro so I just completed these tests, test 1 & 3 went well but 2 not so much. The second test with putting my red probe on the light blue and my black probe on a ground(with ignition off) I got 19.15k ohms … this is way too high. I also put my black probes at various locations just to make sure I was on a good ground contact. 

[Chesnuts54 15]

So I inspected the light blue wire

 and then I noticed the wire had been messed with before so I went and made a new wire and put new connectors on it and tested it again but I still read high resistance 18.5k ohms. I’ll attach some before and after pictures.

[retro 4,048]

2 hours ago, Chesnuts54 said:

@retro so I just completed these tests, test 1 & 3 went well but 2 not so much. The second test with putting my red probe on the light blue and my black probe on a ground(with ignition off) I got 19.15k ohms … this is way too high. I also put my black probes at various locations just to make sure I was on a good ground contact. 

 

53 minutes ago, Chesnuts54 said:

So I inspected the light blue wire

 and then I noticed the wire had been messed with before so I went and made a new wire and put new connectors on it and tested it again but I still read high resistance 18.5k ohms. I’ll attach some before and after pictures.

 

Ok great! As with the other two tests in that post, I asked you to do the resistance test on the light Blue wire because I wanted to learn whether there are any more open wires in the CDI circuits. Your test (& repair) proves that wire is good. I'll explain the excessive resistance since it's baked into my nature to provide more info than folks care to hear.... :)

 

The CDI controls the Ignition and it also controls the oil cooler fan motor by monitoring the temperature of the motor oil in the motor to start the fan or stop the fan. The Light blue wire you tested had the Oil Temperature sensor still connected in circuit and so if the oil temp sensor was a good one your measurement should have read between 9.5k - 10.5k ohms. Your test proved that the Light Blue wire is good and your repair even improved upon the losses in the wire due to excessive resistance (it was hacked up?) in that wire. However, the oil temp sensor has degraded over the years and is now way out of spec. After the ignition problem is solved you'll need to replace that oil temp sensor. You'll probably need to replace the headlight bulbs as well if they test out blown/open.

 

So we have a Green/white ground wire that is open between the CDI harness connector and the frame ground. If I were you I would remove a small portion of the insulation on that Green/white wire close to, but about 2 inches away from the CDI connector (to give you enough room to seal your work up airtight/watertight). Then test for continuity between the newly bared wire location and the terminal inside the CDI plug to prove that the connector is still good where that wire goes into the back of it. If the wire proves to be connected to the terminal then solder a new wire onto the bare wire location and solder an eyelet terminal onto the other end of the new wire and bolt that new wire to the frame ground that you'll find located near the CDI mounting location. That should fix the missing CDI ground issue..... but we're only half way done tinkering with that ground circuit...... :)

 

Referencing the wiring diagram for your Rancher you'll notice that same Green/white wire also provides the ground for the Ignition Pulse Generator downstream from the CDI connector, (which triggers the CDI to fire off voltage to the Ign. coil which creates the high voltage necessary to cause the spark plug.to fire). You'll also notice that same ground terminal that bolts to the frame provides the ground for the Regulator/Rectifier (Green wire).

 

 

So.... unplug the 5p Pulse Generator/Stator windings connector and test for continuity between the Green/white wire terminal inside the 5p harness connector and frame ground. Then unplug the Regulator/Rectifier harness connector and test for continuity between the Green wire terminal inside that connector to frame ground. If either one, or both, of those grounds test open then test & make repairs to those connectors/wires similar to the repair you did for the open CDI ground.

 

Let us know how it goes and whether those wiring repairs fix the no-spark issue, or not.... I gotta run out to my shooting range to help my neighbor sight in his new crossbow, so I may be gone for a coupla hours or more. I'll check back in as soon as I can.

[Fishfiles 20,145]

Wow , Retro , that is one of the best responses to a atv problem I ever read  and I read  quite a few !!!! 

[Chesnuts54 15]

Hey @retro! Sorry for leaving you hanging there I was out of town for the weekend and it’s been a busy one! I’m getting back at this later this evening. 
 

you’re right @Fishfiles.. I’m very grateful that I discovered this forum. I would be completely lost without it! 

[Chesnuts54 15]

Hey @retro! So I just finished completing what instructions you have given me. The continuity seems to be great everywhere but for some reason we still can’t fix the ground issue. I attached a wire on the green/white wire 2 inches away from the plug and then attached to the ground on the frame but I’m still not getting any voltage readings! I’m starting to think that the stator is the problem possibly? Could there be an internal break in the circuit? I also want to add that I do get continuity between the green/white wire and it doesn’t seem to be any breaks in the line. However, I still can’t seem to get that voltage reading! So that part is still a mystery! 

Edited October 22, 2023 by Chesnuts54

[Fishfiles 20,145]

Every now and then there is that problem ....... >>> ------ " the difficult takes a little while , the impossible just a little longer " >>> hang in there , " good things come to those that wait " 

 

You have fixed quite a few things in my life , by pulling on wires.... long time ago I found a problem by accident while pulling on wires , the plastic outer  coating steatched as the wire had corroded inside the covering , after that I got into the habit when checking wires for damage of sliding the individual wires thru my fingers with tension when ever possible , esecially around connectors 

 

I had a 450 with a wiring issue , very similar atvs  -------   standing in the rear looking forward , on the right side , mid way , about where the fuel tank starts , the wiring harness goes from traveling along top the frame ,  switches to the bottom of the frame , right there it was cut on the bottom edge of the frame 

[retro 4,048]

2 hours ago, Chesnuts54 said:

So I just finished completing what instructions you have given me. The continuity seems to be great everywhere but for some reason we still can’t fix the ground issue. I attached a wire on the green/white wire 2 inches away from the plug and then attached to the ground on the frame but I’m still not getting any voltage readings!

 

Do you have continuity from the Green/white wire terminal inside the CDI harness connector to frame ground? Because if that CDI connector terminal is grounded then you should measure battery voltage between the Black/white terminal and the Green/white terminal inside the CDI connector. The Black/white is the positive (poke your Red multimeter lead into the Black/white wire terminal) and the Green/white is the negative (poke your Black multimeter lead into the Black/white wire terminal). Multimeter in DC volts mode, Ignition key on, Run/Stop switch in the "Run" position.

[retro 4,048]

1 minute ago, retro said:

I attached a wire on the green/white wire 2 inches away from the plug and then attached to the ground on the frame but I’m still not getting any voltage readings!

 

Maybe the Green/white wire is good until it reaches the CDI.... Maybe the wire is broken loose from the terminal inside the CDI connector? That's why you need to verify ground from inside the CDI harness connector, not from the bare spot on that wire. Or maybe I am just misunderstanding you.... :)

[Chesnuts54 15]

15 minutes ago, retro said:

15 minutes ago, retro said:

 

Do you have continuity from the Green/white wire terminal inside the CDI harness connector to frame ground? Because if that CDI connector terminal is grounded then you should measure battery voltage between the Black/white terminal and the Green/white terminal inside the CDI connector. The Black/white is the positive (poke your Red multimeter lead into the Black/white wire terminal) and the Green/white is the negative (poke your Black multimeter lead into the Black/white wire terminal). Multimeter in DC volts mode, Ignition key on, Run/Stop switch in the "Run" position.

Yes, I have continuity. Just went out and double checked. I think I may have been misunderstanding you .. so when you told me to check for a voltage reading when talking about the green/white wire you meant for me to be touching the black/white contact aswell? From my understanding I thought you were telling me to measure between the ground on the frame and the green/white(ground) wire going into the CDI. However, I just went out and measured between the black/white wire and green/white and got a voltage reading of 12.65V. 

[Chesnuts54 15]

On 10/19/2023 at 9:43 PM, Chesnuts54 said:

@retro I can confirm that this is the step where I do not get any voltage readings! I just went out to double check. I’ll attach an image. 

 

So this is where I didn’t get the reading. But am I supposed to be getting a voltage reading when I touch 2 ground points with the ignition on? Because the green/white wire is ground correct? And also the frame being a ground(all connected). How would I get a voltage reading from 2 grounds? 
 

Also, I wanna say thanks once again for being patient and taking the time out of your day to give me some advice.

[retro 4,048]

2 minutes ago, Chesnuts54 said:

So this is where I didn’t get the reading. But am I supposed to be getting a voltage reading when I touch 2 ground points with the ignition on? Because the green/white wire is ground correct? And also the frame being a ground(all connected). How would I get a voltage reading from 2 grounds? 
 

Also, I wanna say thanks once again for being patient and taking the time out of your day to give me some advice.

 

Aye! I screwed that up big time! I apologize, I don't know what I was thinking when I typed those instructions, but I definitely advised you wrong!

 

Ok, still got no spark right?

[Chesnuts54 15]

3 minutes ago, retro said:

 

Aye! I screwed that up big time! I apologize, I don't know what I was thinking when I typed those instructions, but I definitely advised you wrong!

 

Ok, still got no spark right?

No worries that’s fine! Everyone makes mistakes and I’m still grateful to have your help. At least we got that out of the way and can move on from that!
 

But yes still no spark! 

[retro 4,048]

Ok, with the key off, measure resistance between the Blue/yellow wire terminal and the Green/white wire terminal inside the CDI connector. You're looking for about 330 ohms resistance give or take....

[Chesnuts54 15]

1 hour ago, retro said:

Ok, with the key off, measure resistance between the Blue/yellow wire terminal and the Green/white wire terminal inside the CDI connector. You're looking for about 330 ohms resistance give or take....

Okay perfect… just done this, I got about 338 ohms.

[retro 4,048]

Ok the next test may not be possible.... this generally requires a Peak Voltage adapter, but lets talk about it. Do you have a high quality multimeter? Does your multimeter have a Min/Max button on it? Or a Capture button feature?

 

If so, set your multimeter to AC volts mode and enable the "Max" button on your multimeter (in hopes that you might capture a weak AC voltage spike). Turn the Ignition key on, hold the red multimeter lead onto the Blue/yellow wire terminal and hold the black multimeter lead onto the Green/white wire terminal inside the CDI connector. While holding your multimeter leads on those two terminals depress the starter button and crank the motor over for a few seconds. We are looking for 0.7 volts AC, minimum. 

[retro 4,048]

If you see any pulses reading above zero volts AC appear on your multimeter while cranking the motor over then the Pulse Generator is probably working right and we can move on to the next test.

[Chesnuts54 15]

17 minutes ago, retro said:

Ok the next test may not be possible.... this generally requires a Peak Voltage adapter, but lets talk about it. Do you have a high quality multimeter? Does your multimeter have a Min/Max button on it? Or a Capture button feature?

 

If so, set your multimeter to AC volts mode and enable the "Max" button on your multimeter (in hopes that you might capture a weak AC voltage spike). Turn the Ignition key on, hold the red multimeter lead onto the Blue/yellow wire terminal and hold the black multimeter lead onto the Green/white wire terminal inside the CDI connector. While holding your multimeter leads on those two terminals depress the starter button and crank the motor over for a few seconds. We are looking for 0.7 volts AC, minimum. 

I didn’t find any buttons like that on my multimeter but when I just tested it on AC, I got like 0.240 AC maximum. Not sure if that’s any good or not since I didn’t have that option on the multimeter but it was in AC. Hopefully this answers something.

[retro 4,048]

Did the 0.24 volts AC readings appear in pulses on your meter?

[Chesnuts54 15]

If you mean like the voltage would fluctuate? Then yes. Reading was constant but it went up and down a bit yes.

[retro 4,048]

Great! That's the best we could hope for since the response time of a multimeter is very slow.... the AC voltage pulse is so narrow and so brief that even the quickest responding multimeters have difficulty recording those voltage pulses. That's why a peak voltage adapter is generally required in order to perform that test.

 

Since you were able to see the pulses occurring that means the Pulse Generator is working. The next test is similar.... we gonna try to measure for AC volts pulses on the ignition coil primary terminal.

 

Plug the CDI back in, set your multimeter to AC volts, turn the Ignition on, hold the red multimeter lead onto the Black/yellow wire terminal on the Ignition coil (do not unplug the Black/yellow wire from the coil, just slip your red lead under the rubber boot to touch the terminal) and hold your black meter lead on frame ground. While holding your meter leads in place crank the motor over with the starter for a few seconds. We are looking for pulses measuring 100 volts AC peaks, or higher. But we'll call the CDI good if your meter attempts to record AC voltage pulses.

 

EDIT: Make sure the spark plug is plugged into the spark plug cable and is grounded on the cylinder head while cranking the motor over.