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retro last won the day on May 20

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  1. @Norbert Denhof, I have removed the phone number you posted as this is a public forum. While you are logged in you can find your private messages box at: https://atvhonda.com/messenger/
  2. @rich250rracer, my laptop went down and I am now limping along on my backup/spare laptop. So until I get a new laptop up and running and get my data copied over I'll be out.... hopefully someone can help ya in the meantime. As for my situation it's gonna be a long haul, likely a month or longer. Wish ya the best!
  3. Awesome @shadetree, you went off retro-like on the keyboard, leaving no questions out of the book! Your post looks like a How to bleed front brakes sticky to me.... what say we pin it up after M_goerler is done with it?
  4. China parts are all garbage, no exceptions. You'll need to replace with genuine Honda parts, then you'll be able to bleed the air out. You can buy good used OEM Honda parts from powersportsnation.com if you don't want to pay the high prices for new ones. What is the year and model of your Honda? There are a few tricks that we can share that will help you get the air out, depends on what you're working on though. Get genuine Honda parts back on it, adjust the brakes, then let us know what ya got and we'll help ya bleed it.
  5. @shadetree is 100% correct! As you now understand voltage exists and current flows through every conductor in a functional circuit, including the frame. You can measure those voltages and currents using your multimeter, or confirm them with a test light. The "hot" wire in question is the one that completes the path to negative depending on the gear selection, which means that all seven wires individually and independently become "hot" at some point while shifting through the gears. As I mentioned earlier, any fundamental misunderstanding of how electrical circuits work will always lead to misunderstandings later on in the diagnosis processes. Again, not intending to be a jerk, just making a correction.
  6. No, you were correct, you were testing the gear position switch for continuity to ground. Until you turned the key on that is..... at that point battery current flowed through your measuring device which terminated that measurement. Yes there is.... in a functional DC circuit loop battery current flows from the positive plates in the battery until that current reaches the negative plates in the battery. Along the conductor path from those battery positive plates to battery negative plates current must pass through all of the wiring and circuit control components (which includes the gear position switch in this case) and the steel frame of the ATV. If any of those conductors fail the circuit loop is opened and current ceases to flow. I think what many times confuses folks when it comes to understanding DC electrical circuits is that we tend to mix "Battery Negative" with "Frame Ground".... our minds assume that frame grounds are the end of the conductor path.... where in fact the ATV frame functions the same as any other "wire" in a closed DC circuit, since the Negative battery cable is attached to it. "All it does is provide a path to battery negative" Fixed it for ya..... you're right about everything here, but fundamentally your understanding is flawed (which leads to making more mistakes inevitably), so I'm nitpicking ya a bit in fun. The path to "ground" (Negative battery plates) did not disappear when you turned the key on, as evidenced by the Neutral light illuminating and other circuit indicators. What happened when you turned the key on is that you introduced DC battery current flow -- which flowed through the gear position switch into your measuring device, which caused your measuring device (multimeter) to cease functioning, as explained in an earlier post. The circuit worked fine, your multimeter got nuked though, which fooled you into thinking something bad had happened to the circuit. It could be.... have you unbolted the negative battery cable from the motor and shined up the cable end and the aluminum where it bolts down? Have you removed and cleaned the ground cable that connects the motor to the frame? Have you removed and cleaned all of the wiring harness grounds that connect to the frame? Have you cleaned the coil and frame where the coil bolts to the frame? I may sound like I'm picking on you but I'm not... and perhaps you've done the work already so I need to explain...... physically cleaning up all battery and negative ground connections should be done immediately after checking the fuses in dead circuits. It's the most important step in troubleshooting that folks must perform in my opinion, because I've learned through experience that a high percentage of ATV electrical failures are/were caused by poor battery cable connections and/or poor negative grounds. Poor grounds can even cause sensitive electronics to overheat and go up in smoke. So if you were to read the threads where I try to help folks find electrical issues you'll see me insisting that folks do all of the so called "ground" work first. We can't diagnose and fix anything until that work is done and when folks say "they look clean and tight to me" I say that doesn't mean they are all clean and tight. We aren't electrical engineers here but I believe you're doing a pretty good job so far. I gotta study a bit today then I'll come back to help ya.... I'm elbows deep in a project and all of my spring maintenance stuff is being held up by that work, so thanks for being patient.
  7. The ESI 530 should be trustworthy. What is the peak voltage of the CKP sensor measured at the ECU connector? What was the peak voltage at the ignition coil before it lost spark? I've been too busy to chime in up to this point, but I'll try to check back here a couple times a day. Odds are we can fix it.
  8. So you aren't getting any peak voltage at the Black/yellow coil wire? Try reversing the polarity of the Peak Voltage Adapter leads between Black/yellow and ground on the coil (positive PVA lead on Black/yellow, negative PVA lead on ground) and see if you get any peak voltage? Your multimeter should be dialed to DC volts mode, since the PVA uses a diode to capture 1/2 waves of the CKP sensor AC sine wave voltage and stores those 1/2 waves (now rectified DC rather than AC voltage) in a capacitor inside the PVA.
  9. So.... what I'm saying is your gear position switch is fine, else the neutral light would not light up on the display and the starter would not work when you press the starter button. Your no spark issue is a head scratcher for sure!
  10. If I'm following you right, the two green wires in the ECU connector are direct to frame grounds, so no voltage is possible on those unless/until the ECU is plugged in and key is on. You can measure the DC volts present on those two green ECU wires after unbolting them from the frame but that's not advised because ECUs are expensive, delicate & fragile gizmos. Seems like they can fry if ya just cuss at them one too many times..... While the Green/red neutral switch to ground wire completes the circuit for the neutral light and the N indicator on the dash, as well as provides the ECU with a neutral gear signal and on most Hondas completes the circuit for the starter solenoid, so the voltage present that overwhelms the multimeter resistance mode is being provided by the dash display. If there were no voltage on the Green/red (in neutral with the key on) the neutral light would not have lit up in your video. You can find out how many volts are on that Green/red gear position switch wire by unplugging the switch and probing from the Green/red to ground in DC volts mode, with the key on. Multimeters cannot handle voltage while in any resistance or continuity modes. If voltage is sufficient the meter will fry while in resistance mode. That's a well known fact... That's why multimeter instructions always remind the user to use AC volts mode on high range when probing an unknown circuit. Then drop to DC volts mode to insure that no voltage is present before resuming testing in other modes. EDIT: Just to add info on why multimeters cannot function in modes other than Volts or Amps in live circuits, the battery in the multimeter is used to provide voltage for measuring resistance, capacitance, inductance etc. modes in a closed circuit to the probes. If your meter has a 9 volt battery in it then it sends 9 volts through the measuring probes.... if it has two 1.5 volt batteries in it then it sends 3 volts through the measuring probes. One or two 1.5 volt batteries powering multimeters are becoming more common nowadays - because many modern sensitive electronic chips will fry if they receive more than 1.5v or oftentimes more than 3 volts while being measured - 9 volt meters are obsolete. If you introduce external voltage while measuring you can fry stuff.... the multimeter as well....
  11. In case this is useful.... a member recently measured a new OEM ignition coil (2010 420 Rancher) and provided us with the specs. I think your model uses the same part number... Resistance between the two primary winding terminals on the coil should measure around 2.75 ohms. Between each primary terminal and the end of the spark plug cable should measure around 18500 ohms (18.50K ohms). Between each primary terminal and ground (the stack of metal plates on the end of the coil is ground) and between the end of the spark plug cable and ground should all measure open circuit. If the coil measures close to those specs try running a jumper wire from the positive battery post to the Red/Black terminal on the coil with the coil still plugged into the harness. See if you get spark. You may have to recheck the peak voltages on the CKP and at the coil, make sure that one of them haven't failed since you first tested them. The ignition switch is a suspect in my mind. I've seen them fail intermittently and under load, opening the ignition like yours was doing after a few minutes of runtime.
  12. The gear position switch tests good when in neutral. The reason why the multimeter fails to measure continuity (resistance actually) when the ignition switch is turned on is because multimeters cannot function in resistance modes while there is voltage present. Resistance & continuity tests must be performed with the ignition switch off, or the battery disconnected (or the circuit under test unplugged/isolated from voltage).
  13. I've never seen a bad TPS kill spark either, but it should be replaced if it's bad to rule out that possibility.
  14. Yeah good reading, so the green/yellow is not shorted to ground which likely means that the ECM is bad. However, there is no way to test the ECM so the decision whether to replace it or not is all yours.
  15. Me too! Glad ya had the cojones to make the call on the ECM 'cause I wasn't gonna.
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