2001 Honda 350es Fourtrax no spark

[Chesnuts54 15]

Hello all, I recently picked up a 2001 Honda 350es Fourtrax that couldn’t get spark and I decided I would take on the task of getting it running. To start, I went through the wiring harness and components to check for any dirty or corroded contacts as well as checking my fuses. When doing this I discovered that my cdi smelt burnt. After discovering the condition of my cdi I did some research and I found someone who had a similar issue and they had mentioned when your voltage rectifier/regulator is fouled it will cause voltage to spike, tamper with your cdi and also blow your headlights(which in this case happened to me). So I took it upon myself and I got the parts(used), put them on the ATV and I still can’t get spark. I’ve tested most components to the best of my abilities, cleaned up grounds, made sure the neutral light was present and a few little things like that but there could still be something that I’m possibly over looking. If anyone can give me some advice I would greatly appreciate it! 
 

Thanks In advance! 

[jeepwm69 7,619]

Welcome to the forum.

 

So you bought used OEM rectifier and CDI?  Are you sure they're good?

 

Most of the time, at least in my experience, the regulator goes bad, fries the CDI.

 

 

[Chesnuts54 15]

9 minutes ago, jeepwm69 said:

Welcome to the forum.

 

So you bought used OEM rectifier and CDI?  Are you sure they're good?

 

Most of the time, at least in my experience, the regulator goes bad, fries the CDI.

 

 

Thank you. Yes, I bought it used and they are OEM parts. I know that’s probably not recommended. However, my old CDI smelt like burnt plastic and the new one does not have this smell .. I know that you can’t tell just by smelling it lol I also got a used voltage rectifier. I bought the parts off a guy who had scrapped his ATV. The reason his ATV was no longer any used to him was because he twisted something off in the rear end, which isn’t related to electrical problems so I assume it should work. However, since I posted on this forum I tested for continuity between the black/yellow wire attached to the coil and also attached to the plug for the CDI. I noticed that there is no continuity between the two.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Chesnuts54

[jeepwm69 7,619]

Used OEM is always better than new amazon/ebay/chyna junk.

 

So you think you have a break in the wire between the coil and CDI?  There is a factory service manual library in the toolbar at the top of the page, and wiring diagrams are towards the back of the FSM.

 

If you think the CDI is bad, you can try baking the CDI.  It works sometimes.  Preheat over to 450, put CDI in oven for 7 mins.  Try that and see

 

If that doesn't work, you might have to try a known good CDI.  For electrical parts I normally buy from powersportsnation in Nebraska (they have a website).  They aren't as cheap as they used to be but they do stand behind what they sell.

[Fishfiles 20,145]

Hang in there !

 

Here are some simple things that can be problems , the spark plug wire screws into the rubber boot , sometimes you have to unscrew the boot , cut 1/4 off the spark plug wire and re-screw the wire in , it can have a bad connection there 

 

Unplug every connector along the wiring harness  , this may require removing plastics , and check for corrosion and apply di-electric grease 

 

Check for voltage across the fuses with a test light or meter , seen where the fuse is good, but a bad connection doesn't let the voltage thru 

 

The kill switch may have corrosion in it , you can take a can of WD40 or shuck , use the little straw and spray generous amounts into the swiych while you work it back and forth to flush out any dirt or corrosion 

 

Make sure the battery terminals are in the right places , clean and tight -- also the ground cable where it attaches to the crankcase clean and tight  

[Chesnuts54 15]

10 minutes ago, jeepwm69 said:

Used OEM is always better than new amazon/ebay/chyna junk.

 

So you think you have a break in the wire between the coil and CDI?  There is a factory service manual library in the toolbar at the top of the page, and wiring diagrams are towards the back of the FSM.

 

If you think the CDI is bad, you can try baking the CDI.  It works sometimes.  Preheat over to 450, put CDI in oven for 7 mins.  Try that and see

 

If that doesn't work, you might have to try a known good CDI.  For electrical parts I normally buy from powersportsnation in Nebraska (they have a website).  They aren't as cheap as they used to be but they do stand behind what they sell.

Yeah I checked the wiring diagram and I wanted to test and see if there was a connection from the CDI to the coil and I noticed that I don’t get any continuity. This may be a problem. I’m not home at the moment but when I get home I’m going to check this again and try it out. Thanks. Stay tuned.

[Chesnuts54 15]

6 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

Hang in there !

 

Here are some simple things that can be problems , the spark plug wire screws into the rubber boot , sometimes you have to unscrew the boot , cut 1/4 off the spark plug wire and re-screw the wire in , it can have a bad connection there 

 

Unplug every connector along the wiring harness  , this may require removing plastics , and check for corrosion and apply di-electric grease 

 

Check for voltage across the fuses with a test light or meter , seen where the fuse is good, but a bad connection doesn't let the voltage thru 

 

The kill switch may have corrosion in it , you can take a can of WD40 or shuck , use the little straw and spray generous amounts into the swiych while you work it back and forth to flush out any dirt or corrosion 

 

Make sure the battery terminals are in the right places , clean and tight -- also the ground cable where it attaches to the crankcase clean and tight  

Thanks, I’m going to try this when I get home and get back at it. I appreciate your time and advice. Stay tuned  

[Chesnuts54 15]

Hello there, I’m back at it again.

So, not to divert attention from what steps and advice you have give me me but I’m curious about something. So yesterday I followed these steps in the image that retro had listed and I noticed that when I put my leads on the green/white wire and ground the black lead on the frame with the ignition on I don’t get a voltage reading but the other steps I got the correct voltage readings. Any advice on that? 
 

Thanks again! 
 

 

[Fishfiles 20,145]

21 minutes ago, Chesnuts54 said:

So yesterday I followed these steps in the image that retro had listed and I noticed that when I put my leads on the green/white wire and ground the black lead on the frame with the ignition on I don’t get a voltage reading but the other steps I got the correct voltage readings. Any advice on that? 

 

Retro has the Creme Sickle flavored 350 , you didn't say what your was , we love pics around here 

 

This is how you hail someone on the site @ then their name = 

@retro   ^^^^^

[shadetree 5,884]

as fish said above ^^^..with a 12vdc test light, key on, attached to neg on battery, probe BOTH sides of all fuses, you should get a lit test light when you do this test , if you do not ?, then that fuse is bad. you will also need to ohm out the stator, if it has an open circuit ?, you will not get spark. you need to ohm out the spark plug coil to see if its in spec ?. you can probe the wires leading to '' kill switch '' to make sure you are getting power in...and power out of kill switch ?. you need to test ignition switch, make sure you are getting power in..and power out of this ?. last but not least for now ?..YOU MUST HAVE A GREEN NUETRAL LIGHT ON DASH ?!..if you do not ?, you will never get any spark on spark plug !.

[Fishfiles 20,145]

@Chesnuts54 dere you go ^^^^ you got shade' , he knows  350s , your in good hands beyween  Retro and Shadetree 

 

 

I got to ask , what's Chesnuts54 signified , I think you might be my senior by a couple >>>>  We got a Sierra54  

[Chesnuts54 15]

22 minutes ago, shadetree said:

as fish said above ^^^..with a 12vdc test light, key on, attached to neg on battery, probe BOTH sides of all fuses, you should get a lit test light when you do this test , if you do not ?, then that fuse is bad. you will also need to ohm out the stator, if it has an open circuit ?, you will not get spark. you need to ohm out the spark plug coil to see if its in spec ?. you can probe the wires leading to '' kill switch '' to make sure you are getting power in...and power out of kill switch ?. you need to test ignition switch, make sure you are getting power in..and power out of this ?. last but not least for now ?..YOU MUST HAVE A GREEN NUETRAL LIGHT ON DASH ?!..if you do not ?, you will never get any spark on spark plug !.

Hello there, I have checked the fuses and they are still in 1 piece .. no broken contacts. I’m confused as to “ohm out” the stator and coil?. As for the kill switch I tested continuity when the switch was off and when it was on and it seems to be working as it should. I can also confirm that my neutral light is on! Thanks 

[Chesnuts54 15]

17 minutes ago, Fishfiles said:

@Chesnuts54 dere you go ^^^^ you got shade' , he knows  350s , your in good hands beyween  Retro and Shadetree 

 

 

I got to ask , what's Chesnuts54 signified , I think you might be my senior by a couple >>>>  We got a Sierra54  

Glad to hear that! Thanks for the help.

 

Chesnuts54 is just a username that I’ve been rocking with since like the 3rd grade haha no significance to anything really! 

[retro 4,048]

Hi Chesnuts54,

 

Did the used CDI and the used Regulator/Rectifier come off from the same year and model Rancher as yours?

 

6 hours ago, Chesnuts54 said:

However, since I posted on this forum I tested for continuity between the black/yellow wire attached to the coil and also attached to the plug for the CDI. I noticed that there is no continuity between the two.

 

Lets get back to this in a bit. But first lets talk about this:

 

1 hour ago, Chesnuts54 said:

So yesterday I followed these steps in the image that retro had listed and I noticed that when I put my leads on the green/white wire and ground the black lead on the frame with the ignition on I don’t get a voltage reading but the other steps I got the correct voltage readings. Any advice on that?

 

With the CDI unplugged from the harness, you're saying that you measure DC battery voltage between the Black/White and the Green/White inside the CDI harness connector while the ignition switch is turned on.... but when measuring DC voltage between the Black/White inside the CDI harness connector and frame ground (with ignition switch on) you measure nothing? If I'm following you right then double check that you're touching a clean & shiny frame ground with your black multimeter lead and confirm to us the result before we go any further.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[retro 4,048]

No point in waiting for my next question.... It sounds like you've taken the fenders off and inspected all of the harness connectors and cleaned up the motor and frame grounds. Did you find any damaged wiring where the harnesses may have rubbed against the frame (inside the bends where they wrap around frame tubing)? Were there any wet, dirty, corroded pins or spades, inside any of the connectors? Did you notice any connectors that appeared to have overheated (melting plastic surrounding terminals, discolored terminals, etc.)?

[Chesnuts54 15]

@retro I was told they were the same year, the CDI’s look identical and same color wires! I know that doesn’t mean anything but it was worth the try. 
 

Yes that is correct .. I’m going to double check now so we’re all on the same page and there is no confusion here. Give me 10 mins and I’ll give you an update.

 

Also, yes the ATV has the fenders off and i began inspecting everything. I didn’t see anything that looked out of place except for the fact that my CDI looked a little melted(barely noticeable) and It smelt like burnt plastic, which is what made me the think the voltage reg/rec was what caused the voltage to spike. I also checked my grounds and see they were rusty and I cleaned it up real nice and still no luck. I also want to add that the guy I bought the ATV from said that the headlights worked but it seemed to me that when I got it they were blown. I assumed they fouled at the same time as the CDI burned out.

 

[shadetree 5,884]

1 hour ago, Chesnuts54 said:

Hello there, I have checked the fuses and they are still in 1 piece .. no broken contacts. I’m confused as to “ohm out” the stator and coil?. As for the kill switch I tested continuity when the switch was off and when it was on and it seems to be working as it should. I can also confirm that my neutral light is on! Thanks 

ohm'ing out the stator ( service manual tells you what spec's you should see ) is using a multimeter on the stator wire side only, putting meter on the correct setting ( look at service manual for this model ), it will tell you what reading you should be getting when you probe the connector side ( stator only ! ) with red and black probe stuck into each connector at once, look at meter, it will show you some numbers when you do this. then, take just the red probe, stick into each yellow connector on stator side only !, black probe to a good ground, watch meter...you should not see any numbers show up on meter ?..if you do ?, your stator has an open circuit, in other words..it won't fire spark plug !. little lesson here : stators generate AC votlage, this voltage goes to the reg/rec, this reg/rec converts the AC voltage to DC voltage, this DC voltage is what travels to your c.d.i. , it then heads to spark plug coil to fire spark plug.

[retro 4,048]

8 minutes ago, shadetree said:

ohm'ing out the stator ( service manual tells you what spec's you should see ) is using a multimeter on the stator wire side only, putting meter on the correct setting ( look at service manual for this model ), it will tell you what reading you should be getting when you probe the connector side ( stator only ! ) with red and black probe stuck into each connector at once, look at meter, it will show you some numbers when you do this. then, take just the red probe, stick into each yellow connector on stator side only !, black probe to a good ground, watch meter...you should not see any numbers show up on meter ?..if you do ?, your stator has an open circuit, in other words..it won't fire spark plug !. little lesson here : stators generate AC votlage, this voltage goes to the reg/rec, this reg/rec converts the AC voltage to DC voltage, this DC voltage is what travels to your c.d.i. , it then heads to spark plug coil to fire spark plug.

 

Hi Shade,

 

This is a battery powered DC ignition system rather than AC stator windings energized. This Rancher seems to have at least two open circuit wires inside the harness... we just getting started on identifying those.

[shadetree 5,884]

17 minutes ago, retro said:

 

Hi Shade,

 

This is a battery powered DC ignition system rather than AC stator windings energized. This Rancher seems to have at least two open circuit wires inside the harness... we just getting started on identifying those.

it does not get voltage from stator at all ?..what recharges the battery then ?. if the stator fails...( from what i've been taught ) then the reg/rec can't recharge the battery...or am i missing something ?.

[shadetree 5,884]

36 minutes ago, Chesnuts54 said:

@retro I was told they were the same year, the CDI’s look identical and same color wires! I know that doesn’t mean anything but it was worth the try. 
 

Yes that is correct .. I’m going to double check now so we’re all on the same page and there is no confusion here. Give me 10 mins and I’ll give you an update.

 

Also, yes the ATV has the fenders off and i began inspecting everything. I didn’t see anything that looked out of place except for the fact that my CDI looked a little melted(barely noticeable) and It smelt like burnt plastic, which is what made me the think the voltage reg/rec was what caused the voltage to spike. I also checked my grounds and see they were rusty and I cleaned it up real nice and still no luck. I also want to add that the guy I bought the ATV from said that the headlights worked but it seemed to me that when I got it they were blown. I assumed they fouled at the same time as the CDI burned out.

 

normally, when lights blow, fuses blow..this is a sign of an over load from a bad reg/rec.

[Chesnuts54 15]

Yes true, the previous owner may have changed the fuses because I didn’t but when I check the fuses they seem to be good, I also took them out and visually inspected them.

 

 

[Chesnuts54 15]

@retro I can confirm that this is the step where I do not get any voltage readings! I just went out to double check. I’ll attach an image. 

1 hour ago, retro said:

Hi Chesnuts54,

 

Did the used CDI and the used Regulator/Rectifier come off from the same year and model Rancher as yours?

 

 

Lets get back to this in a bit. But first lets talk about this:

 

 

With the CDI unplugged from the harness, you're saying that you measure DC battery voltage between the Black/White and the Green/White inside the CDI harness connector while the ignition switch is turned on.... but when measuring DC voltage between the Black/White inside the CDI harness connector and frame ground (with ignition switch on) you measure nothing? If I'm following you right then double check that you're touching a clean & shiny frame ground with your black multimeter lead and confirm to us the result before we go any further.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[retro 4,048]

33 minutes ago, shadetree said:

it does not get voltage from stator at all ?..what recharges the battery then ?. if the stator fails...( from what i've been taught ) then the reg/rec can't recharge the battery...or am i missing something ?.

 

No you're right, the alternator charges the battery, but the Rancher has a no-spark issue and won't start. Stator windings are not part of the ignition circuit. The pulse gen is part of it though, but open wiring to & from the CDI seems to be issue so far.

[shadetree 5,884]

28 minutes ago, retro said:

 

No you're right, the alternator charges the battery, but the Rancher has a no-spark issue and won't start. Stator windings are not part of the ignition circuit. The pulse gen is part of it though, but open wiring to & from the CDI seems to be issue so far.

then i would say bad reg/rec ?..or bad c.d.i. ?..he said the c.d.i.smelt burnt ?..lights blown, tells me the reg/rec went out, and these parts got fried.

[retro 4,048]

31 minutes ago, Chesnuts54 said:

@retro I can confirm that this is the step where I do not get any voltage readings! I just went out to double check. I’ll attach an image

 

Ok, it appears that the Green/White wire is not providing a frame ground like it should. You mentioned earlier that there is no continuity in the Black/yellow wire between the CDI and the Ign coil as well. So ya got at least two wires that read open so far....

 

Lets test as many others as we can, eh?

 

With the Ign switch on, trans in neutral, multimeter on DC volts mode, poke your Red meter lead into the Black/White terminal inside the CDI harness connector and poke your Black meter lead into the Light Green/Red wire terminal inside the CDI harness connector. You should measure battery voltage. If not, holler....

 

With the Ign. switch off, multimeter in Resistance mode, poke the Red meter lead into the Light Blue wire terminal inside the CDI harness connector and poke your Black meter lead onto a clean frame ground. You should measure between 9.5k ohms and 10.5k ohms (9,500 ohms and 10,500 ohms) resistance. If not, holler....

 

With the Ign. switch off, multimeter in Resistance mode, poke the Red meter lead into the Blue/Yellow wire terminal inside the CDI harness connector and poke your Black meter lead onto a clean frame ground. You should measure somewhere around 300 to 335 ohms resistance. If not, holler....

 

Thanks for your patience!