BoCephas 9 Posted September 22, 2020 See below the reason I replaced the carb to begin with Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
87Iroc 344 Posted September 22, 2020 You’ve got the right guys helping but a thought....How about the choke. Is it functioning properly? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted September 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, BoCephas said: See below the reason I replaced the carb to begin with I am not sure what I am looking at there Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoCephas 9 Posted September 22, 2020 To 87 Iroc : yes the choke is working Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoCephas 9 Posted September 22, 2020 (edited) To fishfiles . This is what I found when I took the original carb apart. That’s the jet that the jet needle goes in. The lip that is supposed to stick up into the bore is beaten flat. Then peened to keep it from moving? That suggests the port was “cleaned up” a bit too much and the jet wouldn’t stay in? That’s what it looks like to me. The carb actually ran good, just could not get the idle down. Edited September 22, 2020 by BoCephas There was more damage on the slide and I could not change the jet needle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,567 Posted September 22, 2020 On August 17, 2020 at 9:32 PM, BoCephas said: Oh I have, but the carb was previously mutilated in the area of the main jet needle, and the lower guide or jet was punched in (I guess) and then centerpunched to “lock” in place (I assume) and then some grinding was done, probably with a dremel, to supposedly clean up the mess,I suppose. this is the old carb ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoCephas 9 Posted September 22, 2020 Yeah the original 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,567 Posted September 22, 2020 (edited) i would check with @Goober he's done a number of honda carbs ... might even be able to direct you to an oem carb, if you could post more pics, that would very helpfull. Edited September 22, 2020 by _Wilson_™ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted September 22, 2020 BoCephus , I am going to step back on that deal and let Wilson find you a better carb for a better price or fix yours , I am tire ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted September 22, 2020 If Wilson don't come thru for you , which I extremely doubt will happen , these are two I dug up , should be able to dig up a few more 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoCephas 9 Posted September 22, 2020 Well you are more familiar with these carb than I am. Most of my carb experience has been on Quadra jets and dual jets, with an occasional tractor thrown in. my original is a QA 09AWAA and my latest one is 09AWAF7, your two look like mine. Are 86 & 87 the same.? this little carb is crazy. Now it starts with fast Idle then dies. That’s new. guess I’ll pull it tomorrow and go thru it , and maybe add a fuel filter.....? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted September 22, 2020 1 hour ago, BoCephas said: Well you are more familiar with these carb than I am. Most of my carb experience has been on Quadra jets and dual jets, with an occasional tractor thrown in. my original is a QA 09AWAA and my latest one is 09AWAF7, your two look like mine. Are 86 & 87 the same.? this little carb is crazy. Now it starts with fast Idle then dies. That’s new. guess I’ll pull it tomorrow and go thru it , and maybe add a fuel filter.....? Here is a start , there were 3 years of the TRX250 Fourtrax , these are the carb part numbers for the 3 years , there were two part numbers for each year and there are no code numbers on Partzilla , notice there were 4 different carbs between the 3 years --- I have always thought the codes represent the carb body , diaphragm , jets and enrichment valve ( kind of a description of the carb ) ----when I get some more time I am going t cross reference the jets and see if something works out to a rhythm I know I only had one complete 85 and the carb is still on that engine , I stood away from 85s as the swingarm is a welded version and harder to mod to a 300 , all the rest I had were 86-87s , I went thru quite a few , might find some more carbs in the shed of doom did you check the o-ring between the carb boot and the head , and check the boot for cracks , seems I remember mention of the jet holder being a different length and not being able to get the jet out the holder , or am I mixing your carb up with someone else's 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoCephas 9 Posted September 23, 2020 You just gave me more info in two paragraphs than all the reading and talking with two dealers have done. To be fair, Maybe the ones I talked with weren’t all that familiar with the older models. Thanks for the information. Trying to learn all I can on this old 250. I enjoy riding it as much or more than my 2011 420. It’s in really good shape and I hope to keep it running. You may be thinking of another persons carb. My original carb had the beat up main nozzle (see pix from yesterday’s post) and the jet needle would get hung up and not allow the throttle slide to fully close. I haven’t messed with the boot because it looks ok, and not knowing the availability I am hesitant to take it off. I didn’t know there is a o-ring in the boot. Maybe it’s rolled up and not allowing the seal to take place.? Free day tomorrow so I will pull the carb and check it out. Thanks for the info and the help. Next time I visit my friend in Amite maybe we can meet. (We lived in Hahnville for 12 years. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted September 23, 2020 11 minutes ago, BoCephas said: You just gave me more info in two paragraphs than all the reading and talking with two dealers have done. To be fair, Maybe the ones I talked with weren’t all that familiar with the older models. Thanks for the information. Trying to learn all I can on this old 250. I enjoy riding it as much or more than my 2011 420. It’s in really good shape and I hope to keep it running. You may be thinking of another persons carb. My original carb had the beat up main nozzle (see pix from yesterday’s post) and the jet needle would get hung up and not allow the throttle slide to fully close. I haven’t messed with the boot because it looks ok, and not knowing the availability I am hesitant to take it off. I didn’t know there is a o-ring in the boot. Maybe it’s rolled up and not allowing the seal to take place.? Free day tomorrow so I will pull the carb and check it out. Thanks for the info and the help. Next time I visit my friend in Amite maybe we can meet. (We lived in Hahnville for 12 years. I got in laws and cousins in Amite !!! Been to Hahnville many times ,I lived in New Sarpy /Destrehan for a couple of years , my wife is from there ever went to that old store behind the court house ? You don't have to take the boot or carb off to check if the bot is leaking , use starting fluid and spray it around the boot , it the idle jumps up then it has a leak The 250 Fourtax is a tank , it is very fast , faster than a 300 and well built solid atv , they just don't turn good , takes 4 lanes to do a u-turn , LOL 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted September 23, 2020 Looking at the carbs between the years , I did find some minor differences , the 85 had a different starter jet than the 86-87 and the 85 had a different float valve , looking at the pic of the two starter valves , the difference seems to be the 85 was a silver metal and the 86-87 was brass Carbs can be a touchy thing , I have a 92 300 that was a carb disaster , when I got it , there was a 350 Rancher carb on it , it was over fueling bad , everyone riding behind me use to say their eyes were burning , I started swopping carbs back to the 300 carbs , never did run really right , learned about the carb codes then I bought a carb out of Texas for $175 !!! ( got ripped ) that had the exact code that was listed for my year , still never did feel the bike was performing right , Manny a member from the old site and here too , just have not seen him in a while , sold me the correct code carb with the enrichment plunger frozen up in the base for something really crazy cheap $10 , what a deal it turned out to be , after drilling the plunger out and rebuilding it , the bike runs great and I like that 300 better than any of my fleet I got no use for 250 carbs any more , so if it comes down to you needing carb , I will make you a sweet deal , both the carbs in the pic above for $80 and shipping --- 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Goober 1,555 Posted September 23, 2020 (edited) QA09A sofar as i know is the OEM carb for 86-87 TRX250. the characters following are manu. codes not sure what they mean. Lot code probably. Part number -682 replaced -681. your carb with the staked main jet is best used as a parts carb. You can salvage the bowl, but the body is done. who knows what other madness happened with that carb. My guess is the seals are bad and the float towers or float is loose—the manual specifies how to test the float. Yeah fishfiles has a great choice for you! Id get one or both of them! you can buy an OEM gasket kit From Honda which only has the rubber OR you can buy a Shindy rebuild kit which has most of the rubber and all the jets (lacks the starter jet passage plug) OR you can buy a K&L kit which includes the passage plug and screws. Consider buying a new float if you can find one cheap in fleabay 16015-HA0-682 erratic idle is probably the carb. absolutely get a new starter valve 16046-HA0-681. Make sure your fuel tank and petcock are clear. Do a flow test and inspect the tank interior. Edited September 23, 2020 by Goober 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Goober 1,555 Posted September 23, 2020 (edited) 22 hours ago, Fishfiles said: If Wilson don't come thru for you , which I extremely doubt will happen , these are two I dug up , should be able to dig up a few more I like both of these carbs. The one with the hoses and Ts is better of the two. BTW that second character is an A: QA09A A so probably off an 86, where 87 might be QA09A C. Edited September 23, 2020 by Goober 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Goober 1,555 Posted September 23, 2020 On 9/21/2020 at 7:39 PM, BoCephas said: See below the reason I replaced the carb to begin with Yeah they either staked the main in because it was loose or tried to drive it out from the bottom and broke the seat. Hey Fishfiles, Wilson from what I remember you push that main jet out from the top? I use a wooden dowel. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted September 23, 2020 10 minutes ago, Goober said: I like both of these carbs. The one with the hoses and Ts is better of the two. BTW that second character is an A: QA09A A so probably off an 86, where 87 might be QA09A C. That thing that looks more like a 4 was suppose to represent a A , my hand writing kind of sucks when I write fast ---- one bowl has a primer , the primer needs replacing as it has a cracked rubber boot ---- what is weird , I noticed none of the parts finche has a primer on the 85-87 250 Fourtrax bowl , but there it is one on this one , hmmmm , back when I did a lot of changing parts around , no telling what went on there , or it came that way used , I have had a few ATC250ES's and was thinking last night that could be a carb from one of them , but the finche doesn't show a primer on the ATC250ES either Something else Bocephus , I have found that there is a 1/2 year serial number break on the 250 , 85s had some differences and some early 86 were built like the 85s , like I mentioned before about the swing arm is one that is a quick glance indicator , the swing arm of the 1st gen ( 85-86 1/2 ) was a welded assembly with the axle tube made to it , the 2nd gen has two separate axle tubes which bolt on , the axles are different lengths as well as the hubs and brakes are unique to the 1st gens only 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted September 23, 2020 11 minutes ago, Goober said: Yeah they either staked the main in because it was loose or tried to drive it out from the bottom and broke the seat. Hey Fishfiles, Wilson from what I remember you push that main jet out from the top? I use a wooden dowel. Goober , I have never " knocked " that jet out ----------- I wonder if that has something to do with BoCephus's problem , it is boogger'ed up 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
_Wilson_™ 6,567 Posted September 23, 2020 ^^^ nope i never knocked one out, goober, when i was working at little Johnny's ... i never even saw one come in that needed carb work... just tires brakes just the general items, air filter , plug etc .. as stated they were built very good, and were becoming very rare even back then... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoCephas 9 Posted September 23, 2020 Guys I sure appreciate all this good info. I will take pictures of all these posts and someday write it all down. Amazing how much you can find out if you just contact the right people! I pulled the carb today and bit the bullet and removed the boot. Just knew one of the bolts would snap off. Had good luck tho. The o-ring is flattened out to the point there is basically no seal there. Local dealer will have me one next Tuesday. With it all off the machine I can shove the boot on all the way. I didn’t realize the tab on the boot meets up with the boss on the carb. There was no way I could get the carb that far into the boot, with the boot still on the cylinder. Thinking that if I install the carb with the boot on it correctly, it will be squared up and with the new ring it should stop that problem. What bothers me is when spraying around the connection before i didn’t have any change in rpm. Maybe I just didn’t spray long enough or accurate enough? If you would, hold those carbs for me, and when I get this back running, if I do, we can discuss the logistics of it . 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Goober 1,555 Posted September 23, 2020 (edited) Good work. yes that main jet looks really wallowed out— jet needle probably skipping around like a plumb bob. I don’t think you could change that jet if you wanted to. I would def buy that carb without the hoses if you already had hoses; buy the carb with the hoses if you need to—you want the complete stock vent line setup. Buy both carbs if you can swing it. You can rebuild them bot fo da practice, n’est-ce pas? Let us know when you get them carb and we’ll walk you through it. I am very particular about carbs. Save that beat up carb you may need the bowl off it! Edited September 23, 2020 by Goober 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted September 23, 2020 1 hour ago, BoCephas said: What bothers me is when spraying around the connection before i didn’t have any change in rpm. Maybe I just didn’t spray long enough or accurate enough? From reading this ^^^ I get you sprayed starting fluid on the boot before with no results , and you sprayed it again and this time had a rpm increase ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoCephas 9 Posted September 24, 2020 Sorry I wasn’t clear. I have never had a noticeable, to me anyway, change in rpm when spraying. But seeing this oring now, and how I didn’t have a real tight fit from carb to boot, I am sure it was sucking air. That boot is too thick to squeeze down unless you have a good fit to begin with. That’s why I was thinking I just didn’t get The spray where it needed to be? Anyway I’m going thru the carb today, and when I get the new oring I plan on putting the boot on the carb and clamp it tight before installing, if possible, to eliminate that problem. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites