shadetree

8 hours ago, jeepwm69 said:

The front diff has an electromagnet on the back.  When you hit the switch, the electromagnet is supplied with 12V and connects the rear input of the front diff to the rest of the diff. 

 

Not common for a front diff to fail without making a lot of racket while moving, so much more likely it's stripped splines on the front driveshaft.  If your front driveshaft is good, we'll try jumping 12V to the front diff actuator next.

 

It's very quiet when actuated, just a faint click, and IIRC the engine has to be running to put it in 4wd, so not something you'd hear with the engine running.

you never mentioned anything about the speed sensors grasshopper !...lol.

word from the wise: unless you put the engine in gear , and put the front into 4wd ?, the front diff will never work !. i found this out the hard way on an older trx450fm !. i did the same thing you are doing..light on dash would light up, but no movement on front diff ?..after buying a control unit..plugging it in ?..same problem !. it was by accident that i was able to see why the front diff was not working ?..i was checking out the transmission , to make sure it shifted through all the gears ?, low and behold, the front 4wd light stayed lit..no flashing, and the front end was working !. sooo..in other words..the atv has to be in gear..like ..1st ?, turn switch from 2wd to 4wd..then watch to see if the front end works ?. also..keep in mind..most of these atvs that have a electronic front diff, they have not 1 ?, but 2 speed sensors !. this is how the front diff works !. sooo..until you put the atv in gear..and the front output drive shaft is spinning ?, the first speed sensor at the front side, input side of the diff can not see any movement on the drive shafts pinion gear ?, sooo..the electronic part of the pinion gear will not engage from pinion gear to ring gear. the second speed sensor is on the very front, top side of the diff..right on the middle of the differential,  its covered by a metal plate cover, same goes for the first speed sensor at the drive shaft input side, left side when viewing from seat.

8 minutes ago, honda said:

So does it need to be oem fuel line cause it looks like it only comes in quite long lengths and is fairly expensive. Also the oem primer bulb is expensive tho amazon has some off brand ones for a lower price. As you said it doesn't really get used anyways so an off brand one should work eh?

Another question, the two hoses that come up out of the carb, then join together and end up in the white plastic piece in front of the carb, two of those hoses have cracks in them where they clip on to the Y piece. Is that an issue? It doesn't look like they do a lot since they end out in the open. Could the cracked sections simply be clipped off and reattached?

Thanks a lot for taking time to help

 

save your money, go to AutoZone, O'Reilly's, napa, any one of these places sell fuel line, normally when i replace fuel lines on atvs..or any engine for this matter ?, i buy fuel injection rated fuel lines from autozone, it's not cheap by the foot ?, but its cheaper than wasting cash with honda !..lol. may as well grab some small hose clamps while your there..they are easier to install than those stupid clamps honda uses. as for those cracked lines ?, they are just carb vent lines, not much to worry about when re-attaching them. myself ?, i always remove them..toss them in the trash, why ?..because i do not ride in any kind of deep water, mud..so forth. soo..i do not worry about anything getting into the carb. only time this may..or may not be an issue for me ?..is when i wash my atvs down with a water hose..pressure washer ?..but even then .i try to keep the water away from the carb.

18 hours ago, Hailstatedogs said:

I’ve got a 2007 400 EX I purchased from an individual several years ago and have been slowly rebuilding it.  The engine was seized up when I bought it and I found out later that several of the gears were stripped out of the transmission.  Needless to say, the engine was completely dismantled.  Replaced three gears in the transmission and crank bearings in the bottom end.  Had the crank checked out and it was surprisingly in good shape.  Took the oil pump apart, cleaned it well and made sure it functioned as it should.  Of course the cylinder was bored and a new piston and rings installed.  The timing chain didn’t look bad but replaced it anyhow.  Got the head torqued down to spec in a cross pattern.  Got it set to TDC and placed the cam lobes down toward the head with the marks on the cam sprocket set correctly.  Torqued the valve cover to spec in a cross pattern and then proceeded to replace the tappet screws.  That’s when things went bad.  Set the gaps on the intake side with no problem and then the exhaust on the left side.  Then I got to the right side and the problem showed up.  There is absolutely no play even without a tappet screw.  I pulled out all the other tappets and removed the valve cover for an inspection.  From what I can see, everything looks fine and doesn’t appear to be bent.  As soon as I tried to put the valve cover back on, the right exhaust valve clearance was completely gone by the time the valve cover bolts were hand tight.  I can take a foreman engine apart from top to bottom with no problems and have rebuilt numerous ones, but this is my first time with an overhead cam and I have absolutely no idea what could be wrong.  Guess it doesn’t help that the engine was seized when I got it so I don’t have a good baseline of what I was dealing with to start with.  Don’t know if I screwed up or if it was already in that condition.  Any help would be greatly appreciated!

my first thought is..did you inspect the cam lobes for any odd wear ?. did you remove the valves..and see if any of them are bent ?. did you inspect for any wear in the cam journals in the head ?. rebuilding an engine takes more than just tossing parts at it ?, YOU MUST INSPECT EVERYTHING WHEN TAKING IT APART ?,,AND PUTTING IT BACK TOGETHER !. last but not least for now..did you insspect the rocker faces on the rockers for any wear ?. take a jump back into this, then get back to us.

22 hours ago, TBRider said:

At your age shade an electric saw would be better for you to handle.

what good is an ele saw going to do in the middle of no where ?, and second..do you really think a ele saw is going to cut a 12-18 inch tree up fairly easy ?..lol. lastly...just how dang old do you think i am..90 ?..rofl. anyway, i've got a 14 inch dewalt battery ( 20v ) pole saw, comes in really handy when needing to reach high limbs in the way, love it !.

8 hours ago, honda said:

I have a 2000 trx450 that's losing fuel from somewhere on the carb. Hard to tell exactly where since the whole thing was covered in fuel when I found this problem. When I wiggled the fuel line, there was gas oozing out of where it connects to the carb. That seems slightly abnormal to me but maybe that is how it works all the time? What would be the issue there, is the fuel line worn out or is the clip not holding it on properly? Also, the little black knob underneath the fuel line was leaking gas when I pressed it in. I dont know what it does but that doesn't seem like it's working either... Any thoughts? Thanks

its posb the fuel line needs replacing. as for the black knob ?, thats a primer bulb, i never use it, its worthless, but they do leak over time. it will need replacing as well.

2 hours ago, M_goerler said:

Would the bypass kit work around the brain box for the shifter?

no clue..i don't mess with stock settings, not to mention..i will never own an es model for this very reason !..lol.

2 hours ago, M_goerler said:

I got the repair manual and yes I can shift it by hand where do I look in the repair manual?

in the trouble shooting section.

update: my new saw mcculloch, 16 inch, 35cc, case, bottle of oil, manual, open box, never ran ( hasn't either..i checked it after i took it out of the box )..arrived here today !. some habits are hard to break ?.mine is using a known well made product, and it to me..is like a mercury, and McCulloch that is made in heaven !..lol. here is a couple pic right out of the box. if and when the weather gets better around here ( and at the deer camp )..i'll take this baby down there to start clearing some more tree's where i left off when my other saws bit the dust.

3 minutes ago, M_goerler said:

OK guys this rancher is missing me off now it won't shift no flashing on dash what do I do?checked switch its good and power going to ecu  how do I check the rest?

you can down load the service manual from the site here, start there. also, try using the emergency shifter tool, see if you can shift it that way ?..if you can ?, then this points you to a ele shift issue.

3 hours ago, Infinitysurf said:

I will do that for sure. Haven't looked at the details yet in service manual but I think to split the case & remove the internal transmission parts like shift drum, etc I gotta remove front/rear covers as well as remove the 2 front clutches anyway.

Went ahead and got the quad stripped down so as soon as I have the time its ready to open up front cover and then likely remove the engine. Will take up less space stripped down anyway so I have room to work on the other quads in the meantime. Figured I would post the 1st couple pics tho of it mostly stripped down.

If it comes down too pulling the engine which seems likely, might as well do some prep work and paint the frame in some areas it is starting to rust and at least stop the deterioration from getting worse. Thank goodness I got this thing cheap! 

lol..they come cheap sometimes..but in the end...the cost adds up fast !..lol.

19 minutes ago, M_goerler said:

Well I do know how to work on them some things I don't know but I can rebuild them no problem and I know you got to check oil often if you go in deep water and if it turns like milk don't run in until you change oil

you can change the oil a million times if you want ?. but..its not the water in the oil that you should worry about ? ( it is..and it isn't )..its the fine sand, grit in other words, that you should worry about !. you will not see this with the naked eye !!!, once this gets inside the engine, its going to eat your rings, your cylinder wall, and a lot of other metal parts. but hey, i've only torn down a few thousand engines...30 plus yrs doing this..i have no idea what i'm talking about../s. you go for it..more power to ya..least we know who around here has deep pockets huh ?..lol.

1 hour ago, Infinitysurf said:

 

I just went out to garage and with key on and engine off I shifted up & down thru all the gears multiple times while gently rocking the quad forward/back. Nice, fast, positive gear changes every time and also every time when it goes into 4th gear the quad is not locked into the gear and will freely roll forward/reverse. So I gotta assume that you guys are 100% right and the only option is just to split the case and carefully check everything in there, gotta be something wrong at internally with the drum or a shifting fork.

 

I will 100% tear this down tho it may take me a little while to tear that deep into this one since I have several other machines to finish putting together now that I have repaired the misc problems they had since I know they will run right and I want to get my daughters out riding. Those machines were all running decent initially but had sat for long periods before I bought them and had not been maintained well so needed the bearings replaced in the swingarms & steering stem shaft, the front brakes needed to be re-built, rear brake and some of the cables were seized up and needed to be replaced, I cleaned the gas tanks/carbs etc. Was hoping this one would not be extensive but its not looking that way now. Guess the bright side is after doing this I will know the entire Recon system inside & out.

 

Once I get going on this project I will be sure to come back to this thread and post pics & updates as I go along.

BEFORE you pull the engine?!, like you said, pull front cover, and have a look at the star shifter thingy attached to the front of the shift drum, you may luck out, and have an issue right there somewhere?. ALWAYS START WITH THE SMALL STUFF FIRST, BEFORE YOU DIG IN DEEP !..LOL.

i'm gonna agree with jeep ^^ ( mark this down , underline it..cuz it does not happen very often !..lol )..sounds like a worn shift drum ?..or a bad shift fork ?. either way, the engine will need to be removed..and split.

51 minutes ago, jeepwm69 said:

 

That's a poke at Shadetree.  He's taken on several basketcase projects over the years and for some reason the yellow machines seem to give him the biggest problems, to the point that yellow machines tend to trigger him a bit🤣

 

We like to tease him, but he's helped more people fix Hondas over the years than the rest of us combined.   He knows his stuff!

 

As for the wiring issue, glad you found it, and that you reported what you found.  Thank you!   It will very likely help someone in the future with a similar issue.

yes..yellow is a curse too me !..lol.

1 hour ago, jeepwm69 said:

LOL.  Shade doesn't like water riding, because he's the one that always gets the trashed sunken engines to rebuild.

 

Dialectic grease every electrical connection on the bike.   You need to have two one way valves on the drain line on the carb, and extend the vent lines coming off of the side of the carb, as well as the vent lines for the front and rear diffs, and the vent lines for the brakes as well. 

 

Take the hose from airbox to crankcase (vent) and get about 3 feet of hose, and loop that hose around the carb area several times.  The idea being, if the airbox fills up with water, you want that water to have to travel upwards as much as possible so it doesn't flow straight into the crankcase.   Loops makes it harder for the water to get through the line into the engine.  That's where water gets into the engine most of the time.   Airbox fills up, and water goes straight through that vent line into the engine.

 

Put black RTV or silicone around the boot where the snorkel goes into the airbox.  

''  Shade doesn't like water riding, because he's the one that always gets the trashed sunken engines to rebuild.''

you are somewhat right ^^ ?, but the main reason i said what i said..is you will never , EVER..MAKE AN ATV ENGINE 100% WATER PROOF !..I don't care what all tube, lines, sealant you put in, around, on it ?..water WILL find a way inside the engine !. , mark these words for future post from here asking how, why water got into my engine, now that its smoking, and won't run ?..lol.

14 hours ago, M_goerler said:

Not trying to make it a boat but where we ride there is alot of deep mud holes so at some point it might go over the seat for a few seconds I see guys on other four wheelers submerge there past handle bars and are just fine

maybe you do see those folks ?..but i bet you don't see them working on them all the time either ?!..lol.

32 minutes ago, M_goerler said:

What all needs to be sealed with excel silicone and what all needs to have dialectic grease on it?

rofl. little advice: it won't matter what, where, how you put any of that ?..because guess what ?..IT'S NOT A BOAT FOR ONE ?, AND SECOND, YOU WILL NEVER...EVER..MAKE THAT ENGINE 100% WATER PROOF !!!. but hey...go ahead..learn the hard way..lol.

8 minutes ago, Infinitysurf said:

Final update for this thread... I realized the harness length between the ECM and the plug wasn't that long so I just unwrapped it all and inspected. Figured out how to remove the caps and then the pins but the issue ended up being in the middle of harness where the wire had been rubbing against a piece of metal so got it repaired (solder & heat shrink) & taped it all back up. At ECM at the 4p connector there is also an orange & green wire which is what the ECM sends the 12 volt signal out to the shift motor and I noticed one of those wires was pulling out of that connector slightly  cause the harness has such a hard bend in it there, would have been an issue at some point so also corrected that.

Just finished live testing everything and the ES system is now working great. Big relief this issue didn't turn into a marathon! Thanks for the comments

good deal !, thank you for coming back, and letting us know what the issue was ?, and that you fixed it !. someone else may run into this very same issue ?, and this thread will help them as well !.

37 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

Shade,  I  may have to try to fix yours if I cannot locate another. I know it is a very low probability of working out. 

with that in mind how much would you sell it for? (You could just remove the LCD and keep the rest of it) a price for all or just the screen? my zip is 54891 (for shipping cost)

bro, if you just pay for shipping ?, you can have it !. i'll contact you through pm, don't post any info out in the open forums...EVER !..LOL.

1 hour ago, 07Rubicons4Life said:

Pulled the top end off and the timing jumped a couple teeth in the gear, surprised it actually even ran. You can see in the one pic that the exhaust valves were hitting the piston, I’ll disassemble those this week and inspect to see if they are damaged. The tensioner appears to be the issue here’s a video as well. Is the cam supposed to have that much flop and is the chain supposed to be that loose even with a bad tensioner?  For reference in the videos I had not taken the tensioner out yet. Piston clearance is nice and tight. So do I need to replace the chain and guide?  I think I might just move to correct timing and put a new tensioner on and start there. Thoughts from anyone following along?  

IMG_7531.mov IMG_7533.mov

i don't know about the piston getting damaged, but i can almost bet the valves got bent?. now that you got the head off, i would remove the valves, and have a peek to see if they got bent.

5 minutes ago, Infinitysurf said:

Thread update: Since posting this morning... I have figured out the issue of why the left handlebar assembly is not talking to the ECM. Not to say there wont be something else once this is solved somehow but at least now I know the main problem. So I unplugged the 22p connector at the ECM and used my continuity tester to check the wires at that harness. Service manaul says you basically check continuity between red/black and white/blue as your pushing the up/down button and the red/black and yellow/white (don't remember which is up/down).... but with everything else plugged in and testing at the unplugged 22p harness at ECM, zero continuity for either button. So then I did the same testing but isolated the left handlebar assembly only and everything there worked perfectly. So then I tested each wire between the 22p harness that plugs into the ECU and at the unplugged harness where the handlebar assembly normally plugs in. I have continuity at the white/blue and also at the yellow/white but ZERO at the red/black. Since that wire is common for both the up/down switch it made a lot more sense why neither button would tell the ECM to shift gears.

 

So.... I either have a wire broken inside the harness OR where the wire/pin connects at one of the harness has a bad connection. I have checked everything visible very carefully and see no obvious damage so I am hoping its a bad connection at the pin since that is fixable. I am gonna do a little searching to see if there is any instructions on how to re-pin the connections. If its not that and the wire is broken somewhere there is no chance I will be able to pinpoint the break easily and would be better for me too just run another separate wire as long as I can find the correct pins required to do that. Any chance anyone knows which pins Honda uses and if that's something I can buy so I can fix it myself? Only other option I know of is too replace the entire harness which I hope to avoid. I havent seen the bypass kit yet so not sure if that solves this without me repairing the wires but my hope is that I can fix it back to oem now that I have pinpointed the problem and not have to use the bypass kit for the shifting.

i would look on power sports nation, and see if they have a wire harness in stock ?, they stand behind what they sell. you can also look on ebay. both places will run neck and neck in prices ?,but power sports nation is easier to deal with, used them a lot in the past, very good company !.

57 minutes ago, Jeff seymour said:

Has anyone found a remedy for the notorious fourtrax shutdown problem?It will start back up fine but instantly shuts off when put in gear.

answer: c.d.i. is bad !. word from the wise, THAT YEAR MODEL IS A ONE-YEAR ONLY AS FAR AS THE C.D.I. GOES ?!. in other words..you MUST have a c.d.i. from another running 1986 trx350 fourtrax in order to work.

55 minutes ago, AKATV said:

Shade/sdec40

That speedometer is definately for an 98-01 450S

The LCD screen is the same for the 98-04 450S models even thru the addition the the extra LED for the 4x4, the circuit cards are different, but the displays will swap over

The black looking ink type spots are a known issue, more particular to the 450S model screen for some reason

It is not repairable and the LCD must be replaced

sdec40 said he thought he was able to repair his black spot before it cracked, I have not seen, or been able to replicate any successful long term repair of this kind of damage.

-AKATV

oh well, life goes on..lol. thanks for the input !.

5 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

I sent the pics to AKATV to see if he thinks it is fixable. It looks to me like it is one of the original versions because that black spot is air that has entered from the right side glue having decayed. I'll get back with you once he lets me know

ok,  no problem :-). please keep in mind !!..i'm not 100% sure it is from a manual shift model ?..but i do not think it is from an es ??. i do recall working on my very first trx450s, and it was indeed a 1998 back then..lol.