freebo86 291 Posted January 23, 2021 Well, cleaned the carb and reinstalled in. Bike fired up like perfectly, strong start and all. let it idle for a few minutes an engine sounds healthy. No noise. The below video is seconds after I started it, never touched throttle. I will say, video camera amplifies the sound it sounds bad on the phone in person it doesn't sound like anything. Took it for a spin, seems to run good. Still has the tikiti/takati sound once its driven... drove around the block, pulled into driveway. turn it off at this points its warm. it won't start for the life of me. Crank, crank, crank nothing.. - So, it won't start when warm. - Idling there at 1700.. I adjust the idle screw.. it maintains around there, hit the throttle it blips up.. then comes down to like 1100.. WTF is going on. Pulling my hair out here... 😪 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted January 23, 2021 Freebo , I think what I would do , is after it is warm and won't start , I'd pull the plug , see if it is wet , and check it for firing by sticking it in the boot and holding it against the head , if it has spark and the plug is dry , then I would stick the plug back in and take the top off the air box and give it a shot of starting fluid and see if it will pop ------ try to isolate if it is a fuel or spark problem ---- the tinging sounded better in that last video 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freebo86 291 Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Fishfiles said: Freebo , I think what I would do , is after it is warm and won't start , I'd pull the plug , see if it is wet , and check it for firing by sticking it in the boot and holding it against the head , if it has spark and the plug is dry , then I would stick the plug back in and take the top off the air box and give it a shot of starting fluid and see if it will pop ------ try to isolate if it is a fuel or spark problem ---- the tinging sounded better in that last video One ahead of you bud, took plug out last night it was a bit wet at the very end of the threads. Put it against frame there is sparks. Took the plug that the bike came with (has been sitting my drawer for 2months) same spark size etc. Stuck that in, still no fire. went out this morning. Bike started fine. So it’s a warm starting issue. Edited January 23, 2021 by freebo86 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted January 23, 2021 Thinking out the box now , from having heard all the tinging going on when it was running and was hot , then thinking as the bike runs when cold , and won't start when hot and you still have spark and the plug is wet , maybe the exhaust valve is sticking when hot , I had that one happen to me before , was a bent stem of the valve , could also stick from a gouged up stem or guide ---- when it happened to me , it would show me compression on the tester but it was not exhausting out the cylinder , you should be able to fell the suck and push with your finger over the spark plug hole , but it will be hot so wear a glove 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freebo86 291 Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Fishfiles said: Thinking out the box now , from having heard all the tinging going on when it was running and was hot , then thinking as the bike runs when cold , and won't start when hot and you still have spark and the plug is wet , maybe the exhaust valve is sticking when hot , I had that one happen to me before , was a bent stem of the valve , could also stick from a gouged up stem or guide ---- when it happened to me , it would show me compression on the tester but it was not exhausting out the cylinder , you should be able to fell the suck and push with your finger over the spark plug hole , but it will be hot so wear a glove So when basically run the bike to warm up. Pull the valve cover and plus. Stick finger in spark hole and turn the flywheel and try and feel the suck and push through exhaust and compression strokes at plug hole? Edited January 23, 2021 by freebo86 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Misterclean 421 Posted January 23, 2021 28 minutes ago, freebo86 said: So when basically run the bike to warm up. Pull the valve cover and plus. Stick finger in spark hole and turn the flywheel and try and feel the suck and push through exhaust and compression strokes at plug hole? I think he wants you to hit the electric starter. I have a suggestion.....when it's hot and won't start, pull the spark plug and stick a screw driver in the cap and make the spark jump to a fin. It should be at least 3/8" to an 1/2". If not you have weak spark. Then unscrew the plastic cap off the coil wire and cut about 3'8" off and screw into fresh wire....I had this happen only once or twice but worth a try. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fishfiles 20,145 Posted January 23, 2021 1 hour ago, freebo86 said: So when basically run the bike to warm up. Pull the valve cover and plus. Stick finger in spark hole and turn the flywheel and try and feel the suck and push through exhaust and compression strokes at plug hole? No need to take the valve cover off , just the spark plug 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freebo86 291 Posted January 23, 2021 So guys, I think I may be onto something here. I went out to start the bike again, it started I decided to adjust the air/fuel screw, got the idle bang on at 1400 and steady wasn't jumping around, bike was running without a hiccup on engine. No clacking nothing. let it warm up. Went for a spin the usual takati/tak noise but it seemed less? Got back, turn bike off. Try to start and it fires up. I check the throttle it feels alright, could use a bit more pep, engine sounds good. I decided to adjust the air fuel mixture a bit again, as luck would have it my front wheels were right against the garage entry which is like a raise lip so there is some resistance there to get up.. so I try to drive in and bike basically won't go over the 4-5" lip.. throttle 100% in.. then all of a sudden surge of power comes through and it takes off. I'm starting to thing there is something going on with this carb. When I pulled the carb, down at the air fuel mixture screw I noticed there was markings on the post that the screw goes in. I think the PO may have done stuff down there or maybe even inside the carb even though even looked good. What's your thoughts? We still thinking chain (can someone provide me a part # to the chain, I found the OEM but looking for this D.I.D chain..) & tensioner? Or Valves? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freebo86 291 Posted January 23, 2021 Here is a clip for today. Before I messed with the air/fuel screw. Sounds pretty good? Even on throttle the engine don’t make noise.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
retro 4,048 Posted January 23, 2021 Is your carb OEM? The identification code on the casting should be VE93C. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freebo86 291 Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, retro said: Is your carb OEM? The identification code on the casting should be VE93C. Yes. See below. Edited January 23, 2021 by freebo86 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freebo86 291 Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) Actually find a better photo of it on my phone. Looks like it is OEM. VE93C written on it. Edited January 23, 2021 by freebo86 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
retro 4,048 Posted January 23, 2021 Keihin is the OEM manufacturer and your code matches, so your carb is OEM. Thanks for confirming that! But there is something wrong with that carb. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freebo86 291 Posted January 23, 2021 Just now, retro said: Keihin is the OEM manufacturer and your code matches, so your carb is OEM. Thanks for confirming that! But there is something wrong with that carb. How do we tackle it @retro? Rebuilt kit? The needle clip was on the 3rd setting (oem). What ya think if I raise it by 1 to get the needles it down further as it seems my throttle on the 1/4 to 3/4 isn’t there? Worth the time? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
retro 4,048 Posted January 23, 2021 Nope. The carb needs to be gone through from scratch. That means a complete disassembly and inspection is in order. Look for a broken off pilot screw tip jammed in the casting, worn or damaged parts and clogged passages. Then the casting will need a thorough soaking & scrubbing inside & out with a strong solvent like Berrymans Chem-dip. Then reassemble exactly to OEM specs listed in the service manual using either OEM gaskets or a Shindy kit. The choke valve should be replaced along with the primer assembly (OEM parts only) as well. Ain't no shortcuts when it comes to carbs, ya gotta be incredibly thorough and persistent. Even highly experienced rebuilders get burned every once in a while.... odds are you will too. :-) 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freebo86 291 Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, retro said: Nope. The carb needs to be gone through from scratch. That means a complete disassembly and inspection is in order. Look for a broken off pilot screw tip jammed in the casting, worn or damaged parts and clogged passages. Then the casting will need a thorough soaking & scrubbing inside & out with a strong solvent like Berrymans Chem-dip. Then reassemble exactly to OEM specs listed in the service manual using either OEM gaskets or a Shindy kit. The choke valve should be replaced along with the primer assembly (OEM parts only) as well. Ain't no shortcuts when it comes to carbs, ya gotta be incredibly thorough and persistent. Even highly experienced rebuilders get burned every once in a while.... odds are you will too. 🙂 I’ll take it apart again and see, but I looked at every jet, needle component for wear marks and tip ends to ensure they were looking good. worth taking note of what jet #s etc are inside the carb now? what’s your thoughts on engine sound in the latest video? Or is my level of acceptance just dropping and I want this thing running lol Edited January 23, 2021 by freebo86 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
retro 4,048 Posted January 23, 2021 I gave up on video diagnosis's again.... they are all so noisy to me that its impossible to hear details that I need to hear. So I haven't watched any more vids and I won't. :-) I still do not believe that your cam chain or tensioner are shot. More than likely your noise is a leaky header pipe gasket. or a rattling exhaust heat shield, or nothing more than a rotten running motor due to carb issues. I haven't seen anything that can change my mind yet. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freebo86 291 Posted January 24, 2021 I like your optimism, because the carb is the easiest and cheap fix lol.. I’ll pull it again.. anything in particular you want to see? I’ll check the stuff again. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freebo86 291 Posted January 24, 2021 So I took another look. Noticed this. Anyone can confirm if this is supposed to be threaded and seated all the way down? It’s the main jet holder. Feel like if I pull more to get it down I’ll ruin the threads.. This is how it was installed previously too, can’t make it out in the service manual.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
retro 4,048 Posted January 24, 2021 That needle jet holder looks fine to me. Was there a plastic baffle on it when you took the bowl off? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
retro 4,048 Posted January 24, 2021 Was there a rubber plug stuffed into the end of the starter jet passage? Did it fit the hole snugly and provide a good seal? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freebo86 291 Posted January 24, 2021 Yup, baffle was there. Rubber plug as well, quite securely seated in there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freebo86 291 Posted January 31, 2021 Well, things get in the way so I’ve spent more time on this and I’m no further ahead than I was. Anyone else able to chime in and help? Cleaned the carb again, went through the entire setup. What else can I check? Really losing my mind over this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
retro 4,048 Posted January 31, 2021 What are the symptoms now? Is the idle still racing? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freebo86 291 Posted February 4, 2021 On 1/31/2021 at 11:46 AM, retro said: What are the symptoms now? Is the idle still racing? The idle is actually set. It idles steady now. I think I’ve nailed down the fuel/air mixture. I think my starting warm is also cured (need to verify after a long run). But I’ve had it around the block, and idling in the yard to the point my fan came on and it still started good. The issue is that ticking/ or whatever you want to call it. I may pick up a mechanical stethoscope to try and pin down my noise. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites