Alignment And Tie Rod Orientation

[freebo86 291]

Gents, since I got the bike I noticed that one tire was always point in more than the other. It tracked straight, steering was straight. 
 

I decided this afternoon to break the tie Rod nuts and do a alignment and set the Toe-In after closer inspection I noticed that the two tie rods seem to be installed in reverse of each other. 
 

Left tie Rod the little flat bar to adjust is is near the knuckle. The right tie Rod that flat bar is towards the Center of the ATV. Which location is right and does it even matter? 
 

doing a quick measurement and making adjustments my front is at 35”, while the rear of the front tires measures 37.25”. 

The service manual says toe out at 1-3/8” +\- 9/16”s. But does a poor job of explaining the alignment. What’s everyone’s recommendation?
 

 

 

[_Wilson_™ 6,593]

and you did a lift one this bike? with a lift kit, you will have to Aline the front end back up. but it needs to match  the handle bar alinement. 

 

20 minutes ago, freebo86 said:

Left tie Rod the little flat bar to adjust is is near the knuckle. The right tie Rod that flat bar is towards the Center of the ATV. Which location is right and does it even matter? 

 

no that doesn't matter. 

[freebo86 291]

1 minute ago, _Wilson_™ said:

and you did a lift one this bike? with a lift kit, you will have to Aline the front end back up. but it needs to match  the handle bar alinement. 

 

 

no that doesn't matter. 

Has that Perfex Long Travel kit but it didn’t lift the front at all.. so no lift. 
 

When you say front and back, you mean back tires or the back of the front tires? 
 

Where does it go over how you align the Front and Back tires? The steering wheel I locked down with tie down straps to the rear rack so it’s straight and can’t move. 

[_Wilson_™ 6,593]

no, i meant with a lift, you will need to line the front steering back up, not the back tires, i can't tell you exactly how to do it, it's just something i picked over time, i rode mine then locked it down, didnt raise the bike, and did my aliment with straight angle iron like this (pic) 

[_Wilson_™ 6,593]

and yes using this method you will messure the distance from the front of the front tire to the straight edge, and also the rear of the front tire. 

[freebo86 291]

Gotcha. I use square aluminum and strap it to the rotor. 
 

What is the consensus on tie in or out? Sounds like you do straight which is neither IN OR OUT. The service manual of 1-3/8s seems extreme. 
 

Curious to know what you fine gents recommend as the internet is all over the place. 

[_Wilson_™ 6,593]

toe ? in or out, (i couldnt say how much) that's why i never took the weight off of mine, the alinement will change slightly with ifs , there is no perfect setting for ifs as it changes with suspension travel. just the nature of the beast. 

 

if you really want get down close, add your body weight and standard supply's you will be likely to carry all the time, then role the bike back and forth to let the ifs settle ... then adjust the aliment. 

 

Edit: if you do it this way, messure from the rim edge, not the tire. 

Edited February 20, 2021 by _Wilson_™

[Melatv 797]

Hi: When it's saying 1 3/8 that is the difference between the front and back center of the tires --- 35" center of front tires -- so 35 - 13/8"  -- the center of the back of the front tires would be 33.68"

So that is my drawing above which I posted some place else  -- have the correct air pressure in them -- Place the board at axle height with the board touching each side of the rear tire -- if want the toe out adjust the tie rods so you measure 13/16" from the front tire edge to the board.

Edited February 20, 2021 by Melatv

[freebo86 291]

7 minutes ago, Melatv said:

Hi: When it's saying 1 3/8 that is the difference between the front and back center of the tires --- 35" center of front tires -- so 35 - 13/8"  -- the center of the rear tires would be 33.68"

So that is my drawing above which I posted some place else  -- have the correct air pressure in them -- Place the board at axle height with the board touching each side of the rear tire -- if want the toe out adjust the tie rods so you measure 13/16" from the front tire edge to the board.

thanks that explains it! Will give it another go!

[Wheeler 2,530]

Not gonna lie, I just ratchet strap handlebars to rack straight. Adjust wheels until I “think” they are right, then drive it... re-adjust until it doesn’t pull & bars are straight.. tires never wore on me yet...

[Fishfiles 20,147]

What I see looking at your pic is the tires are cocked out on the top , that might be from that Prefix or what ever it is called lift kit , can you move the lower shock bolt to the outside hole and see if that helps , I have the  two inch shock extensions ( lift kit ) and my wheels are straight , I have never had to adjust any steering bars with a lift kit before ---the slot for the wrench on the steering bar goes to the outside (wheel side ) 

[_Wilson_™ 6,593]

2 hours ago, Melatv said:

 

So that is my drawing above which I posted some place else  --

 

sorry about that, mel, it was a google image ... i snagged, so credit for the pic goes to @Melatv

[Fishfiles 20,147]

I looked at that pic again and it looks like your 450 is leaning to the right side , if sitting in the seat -------  if it were me ,   I would take that Perfex kit off and try to sell it , and if you want some lift get a 2 inch shock lift kit -----  I have made my own lifts out of square tubing and they are better than what you can buy , as the thickness of the tubing wall is bigger ,  it can be built with just a side grinder , cutting wheel and a drill , I have some pics of building them in one of my 300 builds ------  I have never found the right shock , but would bet there is a shock out there that is 2 inches longer than stock , so no kit would be needed , 2 inches is the most you can go , any more than two and you have to compress the shock to get it in , it ain't going to lift it anymore and make it ride rough 

 

Something that is messed up with 450s is the geometry of the front end is not symmetrical , the axle and a-arms are different lengths on each side , the front diff doesn't sit in the middle ---the only adjustment for the tires being cocked out on the top is the shock length 

[_Wilson_™ 6,593]

hm.... and you say your eyes aren't good, i see it now to, defenntly tilted to the right. 

[freebo86 291]

Good catch @Fishfiles, my OCD self now will have to see what this is. I’ll have to double check because I know I obsess over stance when it comes to vehicles. Thought this thing looked level side to side. 
 

Got the alignment done last night, ended up doing toe out about .5”. Used my square tubing I used when I did my jeeps ToeIn. Marked the center on the tube, fastened to the rotor at Center of axle, measured on each side and bam. 

 

While in there I actually pulled the prefex kit off from the front. Installed the CTE Shocks I picked up from a 08 Rubicon which are adjustable. Will have to see how it sits now. 

[Fishfiles 20,147]

Something I just noticed , my caliper is in the rear of the rotor, yours is in the front , doubt it really makes any big difference , always more than one way to skin a cat ---- you can barely see the 2 inch shock extensions in the second pic 

 

I like the way you clamped the square tubing to the caliper, never seen that one before ---

 

what I been doing as a quickie to check the tie rod adjustment is string and duck tape , duct tape the string to the inside of the rear tire , go around the tire to the outside then to the front tire , and tape the string to the inside of the front tire ,when the string is evenly touching the both sides of both sides of the tires , then the tracking is right , this only works good if your rims' offset  and spacing is correct ,in other words if your rear tires stick out farther than your front , it will mess it up  

[freebo86 291]

Interesting idea! On the strong approach! 
 

Yes, learned the aluminum bar trick from the Jeep world. It’s very accurate, and gives you a accurate points to measure from versus using tire lugs or Center line of tires. 
 

For the calipers, your right I noticed that before and thought it was weird. The brand are Quadratrax, Canadian spin off from the SuperATV which are American or whatever their called? In other words, I can’t confirm if they are installed the right way or not as the PO did this.. 

[Fishfiles 20,147]

 

These are shock extensions I made out of tubing on my blue 300 , I have since taken the Worx shocks off and went with 420 1st gen shocks which are perfect for the 300 to give ot a 2 inch lift

[freebo86 291]

On 2/20/2021 at 6:54 AM, Fishfiles said:

I looked at that pic again and it looks like your 450 is leaning to the right side , if sitting in the seat -------  if it were me ,   I would take that Perfex kit off and try to sell it , and if you want some lift get a 2 inch shock lift kit -----  I have made my own lifts out of square tubing and they are better than what you can buy , as the thickness of the tubing wall is bigger ,  it can be built with just a side grinder , cutting wheel and a drill , I have some pics of building them in one of my 300 builds ------  I have never found the right shock , but would bet there is a shock out there that is 2 inches longer than stock , so no kit would be needed , 2 inches is the most you can go , any more than two and you have to compress the shock to get it in , it ain't going to lift it anymore and make it ride rough 

 

Something that is messed up with 450s is the geometry of the front end is not symmetrical , the axle and a-arms are different lengths on each side , the front diff doesn't sit in the middle ---the only adjustment for the tires being cocked out on the top is the shock length 

 

Since the machine is kaput, I spent a fair bit of time just looking at it. It's the photo or angle I took it at. Sits straight 🙂

[_Wilson_™ 6,593]

looks to me, the right side front suspension is compressed more then the left, plus there's a smaller gap between the right front tire, and fender flare, and a larger gap on the left hand side. 

[Melatv 797]

I seen this on a other site --