2016 rancher intake valve knock

[Rolandtd 17]

Put a screw driver in and it is all the way up on the T mark. Can the cam timing be changed without tearing everything down?

Edited September 24, 2023 by Rolandtd

[AKATV 824]

Well, that’s good news that your flywheel is

 spot on and looking at your cam I can see that the center alignment rod is pointing directly at the alignment notch so the cam looks good at least on the outside

I assume you’ve already checked the length of push rods and rolled them on the table to make sure they’re not bent etc

It is very curious why the intake valve pushrod is sitting up higher on top dead center…

[Rolandtd 17]

Yep checked same length and no bends at all. Looking down at the seats for the rods looks fine to.  

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Rolandtd

[AKATV 824]

I guess at this point, we would need to see the cam lobes to see why their intake lifter is higher, since we know that both cam lobes should be facing downward and there shouldn’t be anything pushing the lifter/ pushrod higher at proper TDC

 

 

[Rolandtd 17]

How do I access those?

[AKATV 824]

Just lift the head, lift, the cylinder and pull the lifters

Then you can either look down the lifter holes to inspect the cam lines and position or just take the 12 mm bolt that holds the cam in place and remove it and the tensioner and slide the cam out for inspection
Keep in mind if you choose to do this, you’re going to need a new cylinder base gasket -at least
But before you go down, that rabbit hole….

Do you have any historical data on the machine? How long did your buddy have it for and when did it start doing it when he owned it?
Has there been any work done on it to your knowledge?

Also, do you have the Honda Factory service manual for your machine download from our library on this model?

[Rolandtd 17]

I do have a manual for it downloaded. He bought it new and it didn't do it prior to the top end going out. I'll order some gaskets try to name time this week to pull the top end off and report back. 

[Rolandtd 17]

I did notice another thing for when I put it back together how are the valve washer springs on the rocker arms supposed to be oriented?

[Rolandtd 17]

Thank you AKATV for pointing me in the right direction I pulled off the jug and my camshafts broken in the middle I can move the intake half with my finger. Is kinda weird that the pushrod moves at all

Edited September 25, 2023 by Rolandtd

[AKATV 824]

Glad to help, that’s what the forum is for

I’m happy you’re making good progress now 

I would go ahead and pull that tensioner and the 12 mm bolt/ cam retainer and get that cam out of there

Never seen one split in the middle like that

Not sure what’s holding it together?

I would like to see a couple pictures of it once you get it pulled

I think you should be able to find a replacement cam on eBay no problem

Also, in reference to your earlier valve spring and washer question -there is a specific way the valve springs should be oriented

I’m not sure on your model, I will have to check the manual, but usually there’s a tight side where the coils are closer together that  faces the bottom of the head -you have to look closely, but once you see it, you’ll understand, but if the requirement is there, you should find it in the manual.

-AKATV

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by AKATV

[Rolandtd 17]

Yeah It probably damaged when I put it all back together and I don't remember checking the cam at all. I'll try and get it out sometime within the next few days and I'll post back with the pics. Got a new one ordered pretty cheap so hopefully this weekend it'll be ready

[AKATV 824]

Not sure how much you paid, but I was going to show you this listing here on eBay. I wish I could find parts this cheap when I needed them. Lol.
Good luck either way let us all know how you make out

If I could make one recommendation, it would be to use new or used OEM parts -not Chinese knock offs

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185949547017?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=Cr_hr9usTJq&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=V3Cdg_b1T7C&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Edited September 25, 2023 by AKATV

[Fishfiles 20,145]

4 hours ago, AKATV said:

Not sure how much you paid, but I was going to show you this listing here on eBay. I wish I could find parts this cheap when I needed them. Lol.
Good luck either way let us all know how you make out

If I could make one recommendation, it would be to use new or used OEM parts -not Chinese knock offs

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185949547017?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=Cr_hr9usTJq&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=V3Cdg_b1T7C&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

 

 

 

that is an amazing low  price and free shipping to boot >>>> but it  looks like heavy chain marks in the sprocket's  teeth , sells says " some cosmetic flaws " 

[AKATV 824]

Good eye Fish, I didn’t notice that, but there’s quite a few others around that price on there as well
I think he already has one ordered and on the way anyways but glad it won’t be too expensive to repair

[Rolandtd 17]

I paid like 60 for a caltric cam. Not terrible. PSN didn't have one in stock.

[AKATV 824]

I would never use a Caltric engine part

It’s all cheap Chinese, might be OK if you want a cheap ball joint or tie rod end, etc. but as far as an internal engine component that may or may not  cause considerable damage if it fails, I would stick with OEM new or used

But it’s entirely up to you
 

[Rolandtd 17]

I'll give it a try. Any advice on getting the timing chain off I can't get it at all and the cam won't move forward. Got the retainer off and the tensioner.

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Rolandtd

[AKATV 824]

Rotate the cam until the lobes are facing down. Then you should be able to pull the cam out of the engine 

keep in mind you don’t want that broken piece falling down inside the engine so you might want have a magnet or something in case the other piece stays inside the rear bearing or you might want to hold it with your hand or fingers through the piston opening

once you pull the cam forward out of the engine, you can slide the timing chain off

Edited September 25, 2023 by AKATV

[Rolandtd 17]

That got it. Here's a pic of Hondas new 2 piece camshaft. Used a scope and grabber and got the couple pieces  of metal.

[AKATV 824]

Nice work!

Make sure you don’t have any kinks or stiff links in that cam chain and I think once you get the new camshaft, everything‘s going go back together nicely, and I think you’ll be very pleased

I’ve never seen an ATV cam do that before

That is a lot of twisting force to break that, I can’t imagine what happened.

Just make sure your cam and crank shaft timing is spot on when it goes back together and you should be good to go

I use blue Loctite on the cam retainer bolt and tensioner bolts so they don’t vibrate loose 

I usually go through the manual and brush up on the steps while I’m waiting on parts etc

Be sure to update us once parts come in and you get it all back together
-AKATV

[jeepwm69 7,636]

I'd put a new cam chain on there just to be safe.  OEM was only about $20 last time I checked.

[Rolandtd 17]

Sorry for not replying been a busy week at work. I cancelled the caltric one and got an oem one got the top end back on and spun it by hand and she was smooth. Waiting for replacement bolts for the case to come in tomorrow but I think she'll run well.

[AKATV 824]

 Glad to hear you got an OEM cam -that Chinese stuff really is garbage.

I just had a buddy a few months back put a cheap cam in and the decompressor flew apart and had to tear the engine back down and split the cases

 I think your engine is going to run great! 

What else did you have to replace?

-AKATV

[Rolandtd 17]

Besides a full top end kit head and cam thats really it. I reused the chain no slack in it and everything was surprisingly in great shape besides the cam. Bright side is when I pull the trigger on a gear reduction for my other one I know exactly what I gotta do.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Rolandtd

[AKATV 824]

I saw you said you were waiting on replacement bolts, were you not able to reuse the old ones?

-AKATV