2010 Honda Rancher 420TEA ignition fuse issue.

[retro 4,048]

China parts cause expensive OEM parts to go up in smoke. We see this all the time. Don't worry, disconnect the battery then read back through my posts and answer my questions so we can get started on troubleshooting it.

[Mach 1 21]

Ok, taking a cleansing breath lol, disconnected negative, battery charger hooked up, no fuses blown.

[Mach 1 21]

1 hour ago, retro said:

Well that ignition coil is fried! Are there any aftermarket parts on your Rancher?

 

Unplug that coil and don't plug it back in, you'll need to get another genuine Honda ignition coil.

 

Do you have a 12 volt test light and a decent multimeter?

Yes, have test light and a Fluke.

[Mach 1 21]

1 hour ago, retro said:

Yep, it sounds like the Engine Stop Relay is stuck now too, since the coil fried while the ignition switch was turned off? Gotta find out if any parts have been replaced with non-OEM, replace those with OEM parts if any,  then test the stop relay and the coil G/Y wire circuit and the coil B/R wire circuit.

 

I strongly suspect china part(s).

How do I test stop relay? Plus what would out of nowhere give me no power anywhere? This is not following basic electrical principles! Thanks.

[retro 4,048]

6 minutes ago, Mach 1 said:

Ok, taking a cleansing breath lol, disconnected negative, battery charger hooked up, no fuses blown.

 

5 minutes ago, Mach 1 said:

Yes, have test light and a Fluke.

 

Ok good! Remove the fried ignition coil and the china relay that you installed. Toss them both in the trash. Let me know when you're done.

 

3 minutes ago, Mach 1 said:

How do I test stop relay?

 

We'll get to that in a minute.....

 

4 minutes ago, Mach 1 said:

Plus what would out of nowhere give me no power anywhere? This is not following basic electrical principles!

 

There is a shorted circuit somewhere. Most likely caused by one (or both) of the china parts that you installed. We see this sort of problem quite often. Daily sometimes.... China parts are garbage and can sometimes destroy other expensive parts, including wiring harnesses.

 

Do you still have the original relay that you removed from your Rancher?

[Mach 1 21]

No, original relay long gone..really hard finding genuine Honda OEM parts for a 2010 😞

[retro 4,048]

Ok you'll need to buy a relay and ignition coil. You can get fair prices on OEM parts with quick shipping at Rocky Mountain ATV:

https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/oem-parts/Honda

 

You'll find the two parts that you need on the Wiring Harness parts fiche. The ignition coil part number is 30510-HP5-601 ($56.03), it is labelled as part 1 on the parts fiche. The relay you need is labelled part 14 on the fiche, the part number is 38580-HP5-601 ($37.33). Both parts are in stock and if purchased together, shipping is fast and free.

 

Stand by for a minute while I make a copy of the wiring diagram.....

[Mach 1 21]

Ok, just unhooked battery, tested at 13.2 V, with charger hooked up, 16v..still don't get why one minute gave dash, power,  fuel pump, etc..come inside, come back out with coil disconnected no power to anything, been throwing parts at it, how could it go to cranking over with no spark to no power with all fuses good?

[retro 4,048]

Here are images of the wiring diagram and the ignition circuits diagram that I'll be referring to while testing..

 

 

 

[retro 4,048]

3 minutes ago, Mach 1 said:

still don't get why one minute gave dash, power,  fuel pump, etc..come inside, come back out with coil disconnected no power to anything, been throwing parts at it, how could it go to cranking over with no spark to no power with all fuses good?

 

As stated earlier, the reason why all 'ell broke loose is because you installed aftermarket china parts on your Rancher. No one gets away with doing that!

[retro 4,048]

Let me know when you have finished removing the china relay and the fried OEM ignition coil from your Rancher.

[Mach 1 21]

13 minutes ago, retro said:

Ok you'll need to buy a relay and ignition coil. You can get fair prices on OEM parts with quick shipping at Rocky Mountain ATV:

https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/oem-parts/Honda

 

You'll find the two parts that you need on the Wiring Harness parts fiche. The ignition coil part number is 30510-HP5-601 ($56.03), it is labelled as part 1 on the parts fiche. The relay you need is labelled part 14 on the fiche, the part number is 38580-HP5-601 ($37.33). Both parts are in stock and if purchased together, shipping is fast and free.

 

Stand by for a minute while I make a copy of the wiring diagram.....

Sorry, I put both those numbers in there search and come up empty, been having that issue for OEM, what could have happened while I was sitting in house that with key on with no coil or relay connected and a good battery, turn key on and no power anywhere? Don't see how that is a non oem part issue, like I just loss power with key on sitting inside lol

[retro 4,048]

Just now, Mach 1 said:

Sorry, I put both those numbers in there search and come up empty

 

Using the dropdown buttons on this page (scroll down):

https://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/oem-parts/Honda

 

• Select: All-Terrain Vehicle (ATV)
• Select: 2010
• Select: TRX420TEA (10) All-Terrain Vehicle (ATV), USA VIN# 1HFTE344- A4300001
• Then on the next page select from the dropdown list: Wiring Harness

 

Find the two parts you need from the list and complete your purchase.

 

I'll stand by until you've removed those two parts and you're ready to test....

 

[Mach 1 21]

Update: Battery voltage 13v, at main 30 A fuse, 13 V, disconnected connection from positive battery to fuse box, 13 V so, can it be either key or start/stop switch assembly? I have power everywhere except to key/dash.

[Mach 1 21]

Those 2 parts removed, big issue now is no power to dash, so coil, relay on standby,  don't think they are needed to at least have powe to turn on lights, which originally wasn't my issue, issue was ignition fuse blowing, now escalated too dash, fuel pump etc power.

[retro 4,048]

I've got to go outdoors and do my chores. I'll be back in a bit with instructions for the 1st test.

[Mach 1 21]

1 minute ago, retro said:

I've got to go outdoors and do my chores. I'll be back in a bit with instructions for the 1st test.

Ok, thanks

[Mach 1 21]

I put in cart, coil, cap, diode and #14 relay on standby, though none of those don't mean squat with no key/dash.

[retro 4,048]

1 hour ago, Mach 1 said:

though none of those don't mean squat with no key/dash.

 

Right, we're gonna find out where the short is now. You can purchase OEM parts later on if you wish.

 

Ok, I am going to be providing instructions for troubleshooting in a step-by-step manner. After each instruction that I post here I will await your response before proceeding to the next step. We won't be jumping around or speculating on things, each step will be deliberately ordered and I'll provide images for your reference wherever possible. This diagnosis will take some time to complete, possibly days... tomorrow the 14th I will be unavailable for part of the day, but I'll be here at some point.

 

Disconnect BOTH of the battery cables from the battery and leave them disconnected until/unless I ask you to reconnect them.

 

1st test -- 

With your multimeter in Continuity mode, probe the positive battery cable terminal eye (that is disconnected from the battery) and with the other multimeter probe touch BOTH of the Black/green wire terminals inside the Engine Stop Relay (NOT the fuel pump relay) connector. You should measure continuity on both terminals. Let me know those results.

 

Then, with your multimeter in resistance mode, touch one multimeter probe to frame ground, then probe each Black/green wire terminal inside the Engine Stop Relay harness connector. You should measure resistance through one Black/green terminal but not the other. Let me know those results.

 

Then unplug the PCM/ECM Gray connector. With your multimeter in Continuity mode, probe the positive battery cable terminal eye (that is disconnected from the battery) and with the other multimeter probe touch the Black/red wire terminal inside the disconnected PCM/ECM harness connector. You should measure continuity, let me know that result.

 

Then, with your multimeter in resistance mode, touch one multimeter probe to frame ground and the other multimeter lead to the Black/red wire terminal inside the PCM/ECM gray harness connector. Let me know that result.

[Mach 1 21]

56 minutes ago, retro said:

 

Right, we're gonna find out where the short is now. You can purchase OEM parts later on if you wish.

 

Ok, I am going to be providing instructions for troubleshooting in a step-by-step manner. After each instruction that I post here I will await your response before proceeding to the next step. We won't be jumping around or speculating on things, each step will be deliberately ordered and I'll provide images for your reference wherever possible. This diagnosis will take some time to complete, possibly days... tomorrow the 14th I will be unavailable for part of the day, but I'll be here at some point.

 

Disconnect BOTH of the battery cables from the battery and leave them disconnected until/unless I ask you to reconnect them.

 

1st test -- 

With your multimeter in Continuity mode, probe the positive battery cable terminal eye (that is disconnected from the battery) and with the other multimeter probe touch BOTH of the Black/green wire terminals inside the Engine Stop Relay (NOT the fuel pump relay) connector. You should measure continuity on both terminals. Let me know those results.

 

Then, with your multimeter in resistance mode, touch one multimeter probe to frame ground, then probe each Black/green wire terminal inside the Engine Stop Relay harness connector. You should measure resistance through one Black/green terminal but not the other. Let me know those results.

 

Then unplug the PCM/ECM Gray connector. With your multimeter in Continuity mode, probe the positive battery cable terminal eye (that is disconnected from the battery) and with the other multimeter probe touch the Black/red wire terminal inside the disconnected PCM/ECM harness connector. You should measure continuity, let me know that result.

 

Then, with your multimeter in resistance mode, touch one multimeter probe to frame ground and the other multimeter lead to the Black/red wire terminal inside the PCM/ECM gray harness connector. Let me know that result.

Wow!! Will do, in well that fuel pump relay sits, there are 3 black squares with lids, is one of them the engine stop relay?? Also, is the PCM under the cover in the back below where rear tail lamp is? I am gonna print this and take it outside with me tomorrow,  guessing coil and fuel pump relay being disconnected will not affect any readings? Thanks for working with me, really appreciate it !!

[Mach 1 21]

Also, after each test do I reconnect the component removed before moving on the next test?

[Mach 1 21]

In thispic what are these 3 things, I have ablue fuel pump relay, big square, is engine stop relay somewhere below all this ??

[retro 4,048]

51 minutes ago, Mach 1 said:

in well that fuel pump relay sits, there are 3 black squares with lids, is one of them the engine stop relay??

 

Those might be the wiring harness junction connectors? See the component location image:

 

54 minutes ago, Mach 1 said:

Also, is the PCM under the cover in the back below where rear tail lamp is?

 

Yeah, see the image above

 

55 minutes ago, Mach 1 said:

guessing coil and fuel pump relay being disconnected will not affect any readings?

 

Yeah we are only looking for a short, either in a component, or in the wiring harness. So we're just tracing circuits out for now..... verifying that they're intact (no broken wires) and are not shorted.

 

59 minutes ago, Mach 1 said:

Thanks for working with me, really appreciate it !!

 

This is challenging and fun! I oughta be thanking you! :)

 

20 minutes ago, Mach 1 said:

Also, after each test do I reconnect the component removed before moving on the next test?

 

Leave components unplugged unless I instruct otherwise. I gotta know where you're at... else we'll get out of sync and make mistakes.

 

4 minutes ago, Mach 1 said:

In thispic what are these 3 things, I have ablue fuel pump relay, big square, is engine stop relay somewhere below all this ??

 

Those three inside the circle are harness junction connectors. They are used to connect common wiring together, such as ground wires, power wires, etc. The relay module has an 8p connector... 8 wires going into the connector plug.

[retro 4,048]

You may as well remove the racks and both fenders because we'll likely be snooping around at both ends of the wiring harness. While you're tinkering you may as well remove the bolt that holds the grounds wires/cable down to the frame and shine up the steel around the bolt hole and shine up the wire & cable eyelet ends. You can use sandpaper, a stiff wire brush or whatever ya got handy to remove rust & corrosion. Once clean, bolt those ground wires back down to the frame. See the image for grounds bolt location.

 

If you have a desktop computer, laptop or a tablet you can view a copy of the service manual for reference.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/12hzs10L_Gwu0aVyp8vhmEXNdf2N2P7tk

The title of the manual you need begins with: 5101394-Honda_TRX420_Rancher_420_[...]

[Mach 1 21]

Ok, got it..dang if I don't feel like back on a submarine doing contunity checks on Trident missile umbilical! Gonna take Mach out of garage and move in this POS for disassembly..great idea on stripping her down, got tired of wasting money throwing parts at it and it just got worse, went from a blown fuse to no power at all, thanks again , will start on it tomorrow.