bigcountry78 118 Posted September 18 Ok guys who’ve owned both, or currently own both. Been thinking about selling the rancher and buying a foreman 450. I feel like I could probably get 3k out of mine, maybe more and then hold out for a clean 450. Mine has the warn 424 kit, so I would hold out for an 02-04 450 with the selectable 4wd. So, what are the pros and cons of each? I know the 450 is physically a bigger machine, which I would probably appreciate at 6-1 300 pounds. But, the rancher is comfortable for me too. I know the rancher is probably sportier. So, that’s what I’m looking for, a good comparison. Let me know that yall think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepwm69 7,766 Posted September 19 Foreman has more power and is bigger. For someone your size, foreman will be better. Rancher is more nimble and goes through the woods easier. I'd say the 450 engines hold up a little better, but both are great engines. I've had to replace cranks on 350's I've worked on. Never had to do a 450 crank. Both can be upgraded to disc brakes easily using Honda parts, and both can be made selectable 4wd (although as you said, if looking for a 450, the 02-04 would be the way to go because it already has selectable 4wd). If I had to have one or the other, I'd get the 450, especially at your size. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ATC4ever 1,091 Posted September 19 I have a buddy whos' owned both, & Ive ridden them both lots. The Rancher seemed to me like a trail machine where the Foreman a work machine. I doubt the Foreman is faster top end if that matters. Might even have a rougher ride. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigcountry78 118 Posted September 19 Good points so far, I do like the sportiness of the rancher. Anyone have any experience with the rubicon 500 vs the 450? Thinking about going auto this time around…. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dadstillsurfs 22 Posted September 20 I went from a 1986 TRX200SX, 2wd only, (it was free and ran, what the heck) to a 2015 TRX500FM1, that is selectable 4x4 with disc brakes in front and drums on the rear. I basically use them for transportation out to my duck blind (think mud and muck while overloaded) and a light tractor on my hilly property. I don't go for extended mileage rides / camping with it. I will do some trail riding / hill climbing, but not often. With all that said, the 200 was adequate to get out to our blind, but grossly underpowered for any work. The 500 has plenty of power and will slog through VERY heavy mud and water and I'm still on the stock tires. The 500 is not geared low enough for any real hauling tasks that require a lot of torque, like a real tractor. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigcountry78 118 Posted September 20 I don’t use mine for work, at least not much more than fall yard clean up. Mostly do trail and gravel road riding. My family land down in SC is approximately 450 acres, but it’s mostly farm land and decent trails and that’s where most of my use comes from. That’s what initially drew me back to the rancher, was its trail manners. I had a Yamaha big bear 400, but it was pure utility and I wanted something a little sporty. I do need to lose about 50 pounds, so there’s that. lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepwm69 7,766 Posted September 20 21 hours ago, bigcountry78 said: Good points so far, I do like the sportiness of the rancher. Anyone have any experience with the rubicon 500 vs the 450? Thinking about going auto this time around…. If you get a Rubicon, 05-14 only. The got selectable 4wd, disc brakes up front and Honda sorted out the oil pump problems that plagued the early Rubicons. I was very leery of a Rubicon, but wife wanted an automatic, and didn't like the newer DCT I got her, so she got an 05 Rubicon and I've had to start messing with them now. I think the 450 would be a better long term choice simply for simplicity's sake, but the 05-14 Rubicons are a lot better than I gave them credit for for a long time. My FIL has 14+K miles on his 06, and BASFNB has about 5K HARD miles on his with no tranmission problems. His is also an 06. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigcountry78 118 Posted September 23 (edited) Thanks for the advice so far. I’m still on the fence. I know my Rancher has lead an easy life, I’ve been through most of the mechanical stuff and I know what I have. But, the allure of a bigger machine is there. At the same time, I don’t wanna go too big and lose that nimbleness, but I’ve always had a soft spot for the foreman 450’s. I’m tempted to post mine up for sale and just see what happens. I do know that whatever I do, I’ll stay with Honda. I strayed once, I won’t make that mistake again. Edited September 23 by bigcountry78 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dadstillsurfs 22 Posted September 24 I don't know what year and model of Rancher you have. I found out that 2007 was the first year for the 420 motor, TraxLok was available to select between 2WD and 4WD also. I believe this was the first year that Ranchers got EFI. This is where I got my info from: https://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-reviews/honda/2007-honda-fourtrax-rancher/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigcountry78 118 Posted September 24 36 minutes ago, dadstillsurfs said: I don't know what year and model of Rancher you have. I found out that 2007 was the first year for the 420 motor, TraxLok was available to select between 2WD and 4WD also. I believe this was the first year that Ranchers got EFI. This is where I got my info from: https://www.topspeed.com/motorcycles/motorcycle-reviews/honda/2007-honda-fourtrax-rancher/ I currently have a 2001, 4x4 foot shift. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigcountry78 118 Posted September 24 Just casually searching facebook marketplace. I found this one listed for $3800. I probably shouldn’t be shopping, but I’m curious about what I can get for mine vs how much it would take to find a decent replacement. Odd thing is the foreman and rancher are very close in price here, in spite of the differences. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigcountry78 118 Posted September 24 That’s a 99 model, this is a 2001 with 1600 miles for $3,000. Too bad it’s an ES…. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepwm69 7,766 Posted September 24 If shopping for a 450 I'd stick to the 02-04. Selectable 4wd is almost a must-have for me. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chewy11 2 Posted September 26 On 9/23/2024 at 5:56 PM, bigcountry78 said: Thanks for the advice so far. I’m still on the fence. I know my Rancher has lead an easy life, I’ve been through most of the mechanical stuff and I know what I have. But, the allure of a bigger machine is there. At the same time, I don’t wanna go too big and lose that nimbleness, but I’ve always had a soft spot for the foreman 450’s. I’m tempted to post mine up for sale and just see what happens. I do know that whatever I do, I’ll stay with Honda. I strayed once, I won’t make that mistake again. I have a 2008 Rancher 2x4 420 ES,its a hard worker and good trail rider when camping and hunting season comes around, and I'm a big guy at 6'5" 270 lbs. I go everywhere my buddies go on their 4x4 rides. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigcountry78 118 Posted Thursday at 01:42 PM On 9/19/2024 at 10:26 AM, jeepwm69 said: Foreman has more power and is bigger. For someone your size, foreman will be better. Rancher is more nimble and goes through the woods easier. I'd say the 450 engines hold up a little better, but both are great engines. I've had to replace cranks on 350's I've worked on. Never had to do a 450 crank. Both can be upgraded to disc brakes easily using Honda parts, and both can be made selectable 4wd (although as you said, if looking for a 450, the 02-04 would be the way to go because it already has selectable 4wd). If I had to have one or the other, I'd get the 450, especially at your size. I’ve been thinking about what you said. I should note that I know nothing about tearing down or repairing engines. That said, what do you think is the cause for crank issues on the 350’s? What are you seeing in the ones that you repair? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepwm69 7,766 Posted Thursday at 07:34 PM 5 hours ago, bigcountry78 said: I’ve been thinking about what you said. I should note that I know nothing about tearing down or repairing engines. That said, what do you think is the cause for crank issues on the 350’s? What are you seeing in the ones that you repair? I don't know that it's a "350 issue" The 350 Ranchers, 420 Ranchers, and 05-11 Foremans that I've fixed have almost always needed crank rebuilds. The small end of the connecting rod always has play with the wrist pin. Vince (Mr Crankshaft) said the older engines tended to oil that area better, so they tend to not have wear in that specific area quite as often. And of course, you have to remember that almost every wheeler I get is trashed/ blown up/ neglected when I get them 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shadetree 6,002 Posted Friday at 12:28 AM go with the '02-'04 trx450fm..stay far away from any trx450es period !. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dadstillsurfs 22 Posted Friday at 01:58 AM (edited) 1 hour ago, shadetree said: go with the '02-'04 trx450fm..stay far away from any trx450es period !. Sez one of the best wrenches I know of, on this forum! Besides.. there's a TON of "my ES failed here, or won't shift, or display is dead" posts. If you have trouble with a Foot Shift (FM models), it's usually mechanically adjustable to fix... or a straightforward parts swap. The ES models that have problems seem to harbor the electrical "gremlins" that go away at best but never get fixed. YMMV Edited Friday at 02:08 AM by dadstillsurfs 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepwm69 7,766 Posted Friday at 02:49 PM I still say converting an ES to footshift is a good option. Yes, it's a PITA on a running machine, but for the basketcases that Shadetree buys and rebuilds, it's as simple as swapping a few parts. On the 450ES's you get the full floorboards and a meter that shows what gear you're in, both of which are good things. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigcountry78 118 Posted Friday at 04:19 PM (edited) There was a 450 ES posted on marketplace this morning, one picture but it looked complete. Description read “used on a farm but we upgraded to a sxs. Battery dead, sold as is. $400.” Of course I’m at work today and I’m sure it’s sold by now. I really should stay off of marketplace. Edited Friday at 04:19 PM by bigcountry78 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigcountry78 118 Posted Friday at 06:43 PM (edited) 18 hours ago, shadetree said: go with the '02-'04 trx450fm..stay far away from any trx450es period !. Funny thing is, the vast majority of the ones I see for sale are ES. Wonder if there’s a connection. I know in my heart it’s a bad decision. But, I’ve seen a couple very nice 450’s, yellow with traxlok and ES, and it’s tempting. Edited Friday at 07:05 PM by bigcountry78 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shadetree 6,002 Posted Friday at 10:55 PM 4 hours ago, bigcountry78 said: Funny thing is, the vast majority of the ones I see for sale are ES. Wonder if there’s a connection. I know in my heart it’s a bad decision. But, I’ve seen a couple very nice 450’s, yellow with traxlok and ES, and it’s tempting. don't do it !!..yu'll be sorry !!..lol. ever wonder why there are so many es's on fakebook ?..if you don't know by now ?, well then..i'll say a prayer or two for ya !. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shadetree 6,002 Posted Friday at 10:59 PM 8 hours ago, jeepwm69 said: I still say converting an ES to footshift is a good option. Yes, it's a PITA on a running machine, but for the basketcases that Shadetree buys and rebuilds, it's as simple as swapping a few parts. On the 450ES's you get the full floorboards and a meter that shows what gear you're in, both of which are good things. there is more to it than swapping a part or two ?, splitting cases, swapping wire harness, swapping meters, list goes on an on. its not as simple as '' most smart folks '' will do. the sure..you can toss a foot shifter on the side shaft, but !!..the main shifting shaft can not handle the load up front, which turns out to strip the splines on that end. again..its not worth it in my book to mess with them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shadetree 6,002 Posted Friday at 11:00 PM 8 hours ago, jeepwm69 said: I still say converting an ES to footshift is a good option. Yes, it's a PITA on a running machine, but for the basketcases that Shadetree buys and rebuilds, it's as simple as swapping a few parts. On the 450ES's you get the full floorboards and a meter that shows what gear you're in, both of which are good things. i just gotta ask..why do you need to know what gear you are in ?, can you not count ??..lol. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigcountry78 118 Posted Friday at 11:24 PM 21 minutes ago, shadetree said: don't do it !!..yu'll be sorry !!..lol. ever wonder why there are so many es's on fakebook ?..if you don't know by now ?, well then..i'll say a prayer or two for ya !. lol I know, I had a 2000 rancher ES 4x4 when they first came out. It bit me. But, I do think the concept is neat, and I really liked the full floorboards. I know I can get aftermarket ones for my current one, but the fit and finish isn’t there. You know, for a system that was introduced in 1998, you would think they would have gotten it perfected much sooner. And, it wasn’t like my 2000 was ridden in deep water. It was ridden like a typical ATV, Mostly woods, dirt roads and light surface mud when those roads were wet. If I remember correctly it went back 5 times in 10 months. One was for a loose connection that was caused by a stick, and once was for a cracked shift drum which is a known issue for 2000-2001 models. I don’t remember what the other issues were. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites